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SPOILERS: Anyone else... disappointed?

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SPOILERS: Anyone else... disappointed?
Post by khameirsith   » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:37 pm

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I've been reading this series since the first book came out. I even had By Heresies Distressed mailed to me in Afghanistan when it came out so I could keep up. I've been waiting this entire time for Merlin to get his hands on Clynthan, and....total let down.

I really wanted for Merlin to somehow get inside the Temple. To get his hands on Clynthan in a glorious battle, with a detailed description of the fight like we used to get. Sword decapitating individuals with figure-eight strokes, puncturing breastplates front and back in a single move, etc, all while yelling individual names of inquisitors as they were shot down from 50 yards away with an OWL made six-shooter.

I feel totally let down. They blew through a few dozen guys in a blood bath, and that's it. Fast forward. No gloating, no discussions, no toying with him, no taking him for a flight into outer space so he can freak out, nothing. A few lines about how he gets to witness some conversations with Langhorne and Shan-Wei, and he supposedly becomes a repentant believer without any explanation.

Barely saw the new, long-awaited battleship in action (dreadnought technically?), and while I have a great appreciation for forward air controllers and forward observers, and a personal appreciation for steel rain, it seemed like the entire ground campaign was one, long, never-ending call for fire. No black-op mission, no sniper development, no assassinations, etc. Yea, a bomb on the bottom of a ship, but that was... not very satisfying.

And if Merlin and Nimue could get that close to the temple (end of the tunnel), why couldn't they get closer? Was the exit inside or outside of their designated range?

I hate to sound like an ungrateful wretch, but I feel like I was left wanting more.

Oh, and that damn snippet. I thought capturing Clynthan would be early in the book since we got a snippet of it. Not the damn ending. I was actually kinda annoyed when I got to the end and realized I'd already been told the end. (He could have been killed in a million ways, gotten away, had something up his sleeve, etc).
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Re: SPOILERS: Anyone else... disappointed?
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:26 pm

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Barely saw the new, long-awaited battleship in action (dreadnought technically?),


Nah, just the overweight armored cruiser.

Dreadnought is all-big-gun battleship; which means that she carry only the heavy (and small anti-torpedo) guns, no intermediate calibre.

"Gwylym Manthyr" have a pretty sensless mess of 10-inch, 8-inch and 6-inch guns, which made her the semi-dreadnought armored cruiser of roughly 1900s.
------------------------
If power's on your shopping list
Then use the elbow and the fist,
Pummel 'em until they get the gist
Just make an example of
Representative sample of
And most of them will not be missed! (c)
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Re: SPOILERS: Anyone else... disappointed?
Post by Direwolf18   » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:43 pm

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Dilandu wrote:
Barely saw the new, long-awaited battleship in action (dreadnought technically?),


Nah, just the overweight armored cruiser.

Dreadnought is all-big-gun battleship; which means that she carry only the heavy (and small anti-torpedo) guns, no intermediate calibre.

"Gwylym Manthyr" have a pretty sensless mess of 10-inch, 8-inch and 6-inch guns, which made her the semi-dreadnought armored cruiser of roughly 1900s.




Ya know, when they were talking to Nynian about why they built the thing, I was pretty sure that instead of addressing Nynian, RFC was addressing Dilandu specifically and personally.

And to your credit the smaller ironclads were the work horses of the end game. They knocked out Desnair by themselves, and ripped the throat out of Dohlar. The King Haarold just got to sail in at the end and kick the teeth in at Ghorath Bay. I also find it ironic that such an industrial and maritime power as Charis had those ships as the never ending project and resource sink. First flight went from what 12, to six, to 3, to 1. In some ways I kind of expected the last seen of the book to be of them FINALLY getting it launched to serve as a fast transport for Cayleb and Sharleyne to the victory party.


I was not dissapointed in the slightest in the book. I LIKE how Merlin made a point of destroying Clynthan, that not only did he lose, not only is he going to die, everything he did was a complete and total failure, but it was all for NOTHING.
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Re: SPOILERS: Anyone else... disappointed?
Post by SciFiGuy   » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:35 pm

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My copy showed up on Saturday and I spent the weekend/today reading. I agree with the post, I felt disappointed and let down. I was given the book for a present in the summer and have been watching the forum for every single post while I waited for Amazon to deliver my copy.

Like many things in life the anticipation exceeded the reality ! :oops:
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Re: SPOILERS: Anyone else... disappointed?
Post by jtg452   » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:31 pm

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khameirsith wrote:I really wanted for Merlin to somehow get inside the Temple. To get his hands on Clynthan in a glorious battle, with a detailed description of the fight like we used to get. Sword decapitating individuals with figure-eight strokes, puncturing breastplates front and back in a single move, etc, all while yelling individual names of inquisitors as they were shot down from 50 yards away with an OWL made six-shooter.

I feel totally let down. They blew through a few dozen guys in a blood bath, and that's it. Fast forward. No gloating, no discussions, no toying with him, no taking him for a flight into outer space so he can freak out, nothing. A few lines about how he gets to witness some conversations with Langhorne and Shan-Wei, and he supposedly becomes a repentant believer without any explanation.

And if Merlin and Nimue could get that close to the temple (end of the tunnel), why couldn't they get closer? Was the exit inside or outside of their designated range?

I hate to sound like an ungrateful wretch, but I feel like I was left wanting more.

Oh, and that damn snippet. I thought capturing Clynthan would be early in the book since we got a snippet of it. Not the damn ending. I was actually kinda annoyed when I got to the end and realized I'd already been told the end. (He could have been killed in a million ways, gotten away, had something up his sleeve, etc).



They could have killed him easily once he got outside the Temple precincts. What they did to him was even worse than death.

They took what made him who and what he was.

Not the whole Grand Inquisitor most powerful man in the church thing. That's what everyone else saw when they looked at him.

They took what he saw himself as being in his own mind.

They took the very essence of his personality and showed the smartest man in the room that his whole life, in everything he'd done and in every possible way that mattered, he'd been a sucker and that everything that he cherished, and made him who he was, was built on a lie that he couldn't refute even to himself.

Some things are worse than death.

My only regret is that they waited so late to destroy him. He could have suffered a long time coming to grips with the truth.

But I'm the vindictive sort.
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Re: SPOILERS: Anyone else... disappointed?
Post by Cronicler   » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:00 pm

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Direwolf18;
It wasn't really surprising to see that the more advanced Charisian ship designs were not needed.
You need to remember that these ships were slotted into the pipeline before the church went berserk on Siddamark and gave the navy based nations both a foothold on the main continent and a massive manpower pool to work with.

If the Republic theater of operations hadn't opened, the only realistic strategy for Charisan forces would have been enforcing a blockade on the mainland which would later on switch to going viking on the coastal areas and stripping everything else (like southern Hatchong) from them and taking those parts over.

For that purpose, the steamships would have been invaluable.

However, thanks to Zhaspar's brilliant maneuver to secure Church's only soft flank on the continent, the above mentioned plans never came to pass.

As mentioned in the previous posts, the only modern ships and naval weapons we see from the Charisans in the last 2-3 books after the war started on the mainland are the ones that were already in the pipeline.
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Re: SPOILERS: Anyone else... disappointed?
Post by Dilandu   » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:32 am

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Direwolf18 wrote:
Ya know, when they were talking to Nynian about why they built the thing, I was pretty sure that instead of addressing Nynian, RFC was addressing Dilandu specifically and personally.


Actually I was talking about their armament. The mix of 10-inc, 8-inch and 6-inch guns)
------------------------
If power's on your shopping list
Then use the elbow and the fist,
Pummel 'em until they get the gist
Just make an example of
Representative sample of
And most of them will not be missed! (c)
Top
Re: SPOILERS: Anyone else... disappointed?
Post by StealthSeeker   » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:34 am

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Direwolf18 wrote:
And to your credit the smaller ironclads were the work horses of the end game. They knocked out Desnair by themselves, and ripped the throat out of Dohlar. The King Haarold just got to sail in at the end and kick the teeth in at Ghorath Bay.



Go back and re-read those chapters about the attack on Dohlar and Ghorath Bay. I believe that you will find that the defensive works of the channel to the Bay had 2 fortification points. The first was taken out by the city class ships, well, mostly. The book didn't really finish how that battle at the first fortification ended after the rocket attack on the city class ships.

Then there was the attempted night attack by the screw drive Dohlar ships with their torpedoes. Three of them survived to be towed back up the channel to the second fortification by a city class ship. But again the book doesn't give any details of that battle, it only refers to flashes in the night sky.

But the attack on the second fortification was led and carried out by the King Haarald class ship. It steamed right up the channel and anchored just shy of the sea bombs, right in the middle of the channel, with 11,000 feet distance to the guns on either side. The mine sweepers cleared the channel of sea bombs while the big ship sat there and destroyed the fortifications on both sides of the channel. Or at least that is what the book led the reader to believe. Once the bombs were cleared and the fortifications reduced to rubble (again that is hinted at by the book) all the ships steam to the harbor and blow the crap out out of it.

Go ahead, take a second read.
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Re: SPOILERS: Anyone else... disappointed?
Post by StealthSeeker   » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:44 am

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I thought it was a good end to the first story arc. It ties up the loose nots of the war and brings it to an end but also lays the ground work for the next arc.

I enjoyed this book a lot. The only part that seemed superfluous was the story of the revolt in (Chisom ?). (I'm a bad speller)

Mr. Weber even promises an updated map of Safehold to appear on this web site in a month or so. I look forward to it. with out a good map, all the subtle army movement become lost in translation. I just have to take for granted that the troop movements accomplish what the book says it does.
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I think therefore I am.... I think
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Re: SPOILERS: Anyone else... disappointed?
Post by Charles83   » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:57 am

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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:40 pm

I agree with this post, the last book was a bit dissapointing.
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