So, part 1 done, when do we get our first glimpse of part 2?

C. O. Thompson wrote:

Keith_w wrote:Now that his mighty wizardness has finished the first part of the war against the Gbaba, when will book 1 of "Twenty years after - the BIG reveal" be available?

Keith...

I have to say, I read your headline on Sunday night and had two thoughts... First was, how the h**l do people get their copies so far ahead of release date to have finished it?

The second was... this is the kind of guy that walks out of a movie theater while you are standing line to see the next showing and says "The butler did it"

So, I left the thread alone till I finished.

I hope it will not take more time till the next book in the series that the gap between this and the last one but, OMG almost need a wagon to carry this one.
I was up to page 65 on my kindle version when UPS delivered the hard bound of this and SoV.

I don't know how long we have to wait but I do see Thrisk coming into the inner circle (along with his geek) and most of the Helm Cleaver's, sisters of St Kohdy and the top offices from the Mighty Host.

The only thing that remains, like an itch I cannot scratch is the mystery under the temple, though I am glad that Merlin found the back door in.

I think that we all suspected that Merlin did not spend any time checking it out but... what is that line from (I think it's) The Hound of the Baskervilles about the dog that did not bark... Remember that Clyanthn thoughts after his last meal include that he has seen this files before so, maybe they did check it out.

Sorry C.O., I don't understand your point. What part of the title of my post did you feel was a spoiler? That this was to b he final book in this arc had been commonly discussed. I did not suggest that the good guys won nor, if they had, how. With what, pray tell, are you taking umbrage?

Keith...

I have to say, I read your headline on Sunday night and had two thoughts... First was, how the h**l do people get their copies so far ahead of release date to have finished it?

The second was... this is the kind of guy that walks out of a movie theater while you are standing line to see the next showing and says "The butler did it"

So, I left the thread alone till I finished.

I hope it will not take more time till the next book in the series that the gap between this and the last one but, OMG almost need a wagon to carry this one.
I was up to page 65 on my kindle version when UPS delivered the hard bound of this and SoV.

I don't know how long we have to wait but I do see Thrisk coming into the inner circle (along with his geek) and most of the Helm Cleaver's, sisters of St Kohdy and the top offices from the Mighty Host.

The only thing that remains, like an itch I cannot scratch is the mystery under the temple, though I am glad that Merlin found the back door in.

I think that we all suspected that Merlin did not spend any time checking it out but... what is that line from (I think it's) The Hound of the Baskervilles about the dog that did not bark... Remember that Clyanthn thoughts after his last meal include that he has seen this files before so, maybe they did check it out.[/quote]
Sorry C.O., I don't understand your point. What part of the title of my post did you feel was a spoiler? That this was to b he final book in this arc had been commonly discussed. I did not suggest that the good guys won nor, if they had, how. With what, pray tell, are you taking umbrage?[/quote]

Keith, I am also sorry... I told you that I did not read the post till I finished reading and that I had a knee jerk reaction to the headline based on the mistake I made when I read it.
I put the comment on my to do list and I guess I only answered so I could check it off.

israelsmith wrote: I think that Owl and a couple others will have actually begun working on theoretical advances that were being discussed (even if its only incremental from last-gen earth tech) near the end of the final days. After all that's the real mission, the true end goal and endgame.

Um, nope.

I think that all resources will go into building something which can remove the Rakurai.

Because now it will only be a matter of time until *someone* starts experimenting with electricity, and if Rakurai then activates...

Imagine the consequences. God never intervened during the whole Jihad, but suddenly, 20 years later and during peace, a small city gets blown up by divine intervention. Ouch...

I for myself have my eggs in the Hamilcar-on-relativistic flight basket. And it comes late, missing the declared date for their return by some years, which would explain the difference between the 6-7 (?) years from the books, and MWW's declaration of 20 years.

Development of new tech is an interesting conundrum. On the one hand, there needs to be demonstrable progress to keep everyone else on the arms race and industrialization treadmill. If nothing new shows up after the war, then people will tend to default to the basic mindset of "trying to fix it when it ain't broke will get you sent to Hell."

On the other hand, Charis needs to win the next war and the war after that, too. So it has to keep some tricks to itself so they can sucker punch any one who tries to re-assert the Proscriptions by military force. The Empire is ridiculously vulnerable if they lose naval supremacy, for instance. Though I can't think of anything other than aircraft or magic torpedoes that would be a game-changer given what Charis has already built.

At a guess, Merlin has seen far more than he wanted, and is going to become retiring. As I have noted before, Merlin was sent to sleep in his cave until he was again needed. It was, after all, the mythical our time period Merlin who was bespelled to sleep by Niniane (multiple alternative spellings here).

Nimue, perhaps as Nimue Alban, will mastermind the development of Federation tech level industry -- in caves hollowed out in Silverlode, using robots -- on the scale needed to eliminate or turn off the orbital bombardment system. (That's assuming that its bombardment segments as opposed to its self-defense segments are still working, which has not been shown.) She will also, at a guess, be active in the university system. And in one of the later books the assault shuttle will show up, landing in Tellesburg and broad daylight, with Nimue appearing in her Federation dress uniform, to the wild cheers of the populace greeting the savior of Charis and looking forward to their Crusade against the Gbaba.

Hmm, what could round two bring?

SPOILERS, SPOILERS, SPOILERS

Sort of anyway

AND A POT O SPECULATION


























OK so we know there's something under the temple that will wake up soon. Could be 10 years, could be 20, I'm not holding David to a deadline, maybe the calendar skipped a beat somewhere, or maybe Schuler, or whatever is pretending to be Schuler wasn't being literal, or maybe somebody miss-remembered the time period, or they don't have an accurate starting date for the timing, who knows. David says 20 years, so then 20 years it will be.

At the minimum we can assume a battle computer/artificial AI programmed to monitor and examine the society around it and check for disruptive technology. Now Langhorne and company were fairly arrogant and assumed that they had society locked down in a pretty restrictive matrix, so I assume it will be thinking it’s only going to do a little trimming around the edges. Even Chiro and the rest who survived the War of the Fallen had to think they polished off any source of interference once the war was over. They won, the matrix is locked in and the last disruptive influence is buried, game over.

If that was the case they probably pickled their brains into a jar someplace, or committed the electronic download equivalent and have been sleeping like a babe through the intervening years. Since effectively no time passes they can sleep peacefully, live in ultra slow time, or whatever in a perfectly outfitted simulation paradise.

So when the timer ticks to zero and it’s time for a visit back in the real, the AI deploys its remote sensor net (SNARCS and such) and builds the tactical picture. My guess is it’s going to get a heck of a shock! Given even a decade the Charisian manufacturing tech is going to have taken hold in all of the Empire of Charis and probably Siddermark and Dohler. Chances are South Harchong as well. Further the use of Arabic numbers and various maths are going to be spreading like wildfire. Railroads are going to be spreading in various places, and chemistry is going to be climbing up the information ladder (probably via explosives, cosmetics, and medicines, same things that fuelled it in our timeline.)

Once it gets over the initial shock of the rate of change it’s going to put together a info dossier and shake old Chiro and whoever else is around out of their cybernetic stupor and tell them that it has a problem outside its initial programming parameters, please advise. Now you might think the rot has spread too far to stop… but guess again. What you have is a repeat of the War of the Fallen, with both sides using Federation tech. Chiro denounces from the Temple. His image calls upon the faithful to resist these temptations of Shan Wei while a preemptive exploding earbug strike attempts to take out the Major Charisian players. Meanwhile the temple broadcasts on all Federation frequencies calling on the Saijen Merlin to respond. If Charis doesn’t abandon it’s evil ways and renounce technology a new Armageddon reef is in the offing.

And we’re off and running. Hopefully Merlin & Nimue have withdrawn from the real world (along with their various Welsh counterparts) and have been preparing for just such an emergency.

Because frankly the OBS and the Temple have to be faced, and the Archangels have to be shown for what they really are if humanity is ever going to be able to advance to Gbaba fighting capacity. So long as Chiro or his electronic counterpart can wield moral authority and the anti-technology bias of the church exists, you’re still fighting up a vertical cliff covered in cooking oil with toothpicks for rock spikes. The church has to be destroyed, and all you’ve bought with this book series is breathing room. For all its bloodshed and catastrophe, the real battles are yet to come. It’s not enough to prove the church was manipulated by a corrupt and venial fool; you really do have to break the church completely to really get things moving. You need electricity in the long run, and you can’t get it so long as any traces of the Temple or the OBS are around. But as bad as it was for Charis in the last round, in the next round your facing opponents from the same federation technology, and they have the same advantages you do plus they already fought one war of the fallen against the entire security and ships crews – and won.

Lots of luck Charisians, you’re gonna need it!
Larry

phillies wrote:At a guess, Merlin has seen far more than he wanted, and is going to become retiring. As I have noted before, Merlin was sent to sleep in his cave until he was again needed. It was, after all, the mythical our time period Merlin who was bespelled to sleep by Niniane (multiple alternative spellings here).

Nimue, perhaps as Nimue Alban, will mastermind the development of Federation tech level industry -- in caves hollowed out in Silverlode, using robots -- on the scale needed to eliminate or turn off the orbital bombardment system. (That's assuming that its bombardment segments as opposed to its self-defense segments are still working, which has not been shown.) She will also, at a guess, be active in the university system. And in one of the later books the assault shuttle will show up, landing in Tellesburg and broad daylight, with Nimue appearing in her Federation dress uniform, to the wild cheers of the populace greeting the savior of Charis and looking forward to their Crusade against the Gbaba.

While I think you are right about where the tech to destroy the OBS is going to be built, Merlin isn't going to go to sleep for at least 20 years - the man is in love! There is no way that he will abandon Ninian. Heck, he may even age himself at her pace until she passes.

Spoilers





Larry, some interesting ideas ad speculations.

There is a snafu with the timeline, which is why, in, YOG 898, we are talking about a fairly imminent return after 1000 years. However I am pretty sure, although I can't check it right now, that when Paityr told the inner circle about the return they were talking about having 20 years. OK that was what, 3 or 5 years ago now, so they have 15-17 years left. I have no idea where the figure of 7-8 comes from, anyone who has evidence for this please let us have it.

Any future war is going to be nothing like the War of the Fallen. Back then the Fallen wanted to keep the vast majority of the population within the cultural matrix, for the time being, just as much as Chihiro did. So there were no mass armies with post medieval armament, no actual countries fighting the Church, no opposing large scale armaments industry, no vastly improved logistics for the Fallen. Even the Church's Seijins only got better travel and comms and 'magic' swords and armour. This time round the EoC is going to have all those things, plus machine guns, steam tanks, RPG's, a burgeoning chemicals industry, and a population with a much more enquiring and far less subservient mindset. To overturn all that the Returnees will either have to allow all these things for their own side, in which case the cat is largely out of the bag whoever wins, or create a vast hidden industrial TF base to turn out the number of 'servitors' they are going to need to subdue the EoC. Charis would have to be terminally stupid to allow them space to do that.

Merlin has clear priorities for the next 15 years or so
1. Build a whole lot more TF Fabrication capability
2. Have several redundant OWLs in other hidden places to go with it.
3. Use them to build enough TF kit to take down the OBS, at a time of their own choosing and if possible to interdict orbital launches by the Returnees.
4. Now that he has a way into the Temple, which is much less likely to be under TF level surveillance, a 'small' underground blast which the Temple Dome helps contain might very well be worth considering and preparing.
5. Economic transformation of the whole world so that it cannot survive without the new technology and its fruits. This may well involve a good deal of intellectual and economic dominance by the EoC at first.

Phillies, Heck NO! Merlin is not going away. It would be psycholgically cruel and destabilising to waken him only when there was a war to be fought, and as well as the above he has a whole bundle of things to do and to guide in softening up Safehold for the sidelining of the Proscriptions, starting from the EoC, and assisting further helpful development, intellectual as well as technological. Besides Nynian will provide concrete boots for anyone who suggests Merlin leaves.

NervousEnergy wrote:Kind of like CJ Cherryh with the Foreigner series. Not really a huge fan of that setting... I much prefer her Merchanter universe books, but the sales and contract for Foreigner drive the schedule.

Some of C J Cherryh's books I thoroughly enjoyed – Hellburner was one and Serpent's Reach was another. Others, like Heavy Time, I found unreadable. Very frustrating!

P.S. Sorry about the off-topic . . .

Keith_w wrote:

NervousEnergy wrote:
Kind of like CJ Cherryh with the Foreigner series. Not really a huge fan of that setting... I much prefer her Merchanter universe books, but the sales and contract for Foreigner drive the schedule.

Glad I am not the only one who feels that way. I liked the series when it started but it has dragged on way too long. The Downbelow/Merchanter stories are so much better because even though they are in a common universe they are not absolutely linked together. On the other hand I love the Chanur and Gates series which are all totally linked together.

Agreed, and the fact that the serialized Chanur books exist in the same literary universe as the more 'one-off' Alliance - Union books is another great feat of consistency in SF world building. Himself also seems to regard CJC very highly. She's writing another A-U book right now, Alliance Rising, after several years off.

DW doesn't say much about his contractual status other than what he's planning on writing, so I'm not sure where he stands with Tor right now on Safehold. Given the huge effort Tor just went through to get the book out in 3 months post-submission I think the series has been popular and important to them. I do hope they're as good to DW for the second arc as they obviously were to him for the first!