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Rayno ... the ultimate YES MAN

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Re: Rayno ... the ultimate YES MAN
Post by n7axw   » Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:05 pm

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C. O. Thompson wrote:
Henry Brown wrote:One other important point to consider: Rayno manipulated the votes in order to elect Clyntahn as Grand Inquisitor in the first place. The clear implication is that without his manipulation, Clyntahn would have lost. To me, this suggest that he already had a close relationship with Clyntahn before he became Grand Inquisitor. It also explains why Clyntahn seems to regard him with so much trust.



Yes. I remember that and think that brings the old "Be careful what you wish for... you just might get it" philosophy to mind. To me it looks like he continues to enable Clynthan to hold his own position but, if he was more than a yes man, he would put a knife in the Grand Inquisitors ribs or back because he sees the fear and indecision coming forward.


Rayno believes in Clyntahns policies. His role seems to be the rational voice in Clyntahn's ear when Clyntahn is emoting. It has always been intriguing to me both that Rayno has the nerve to play that role and that Clyntahn is willing to put up with it.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Rayno ... the ultimate YES MAN
Post by WeberFan   » Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:08 pm

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More as a Heinrich Himmler to Adolph Hitler... Powerful in his own right, but dependent on the alpha dog.
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Re: Rayno ... the ultimate YES MAN
Post by shayvaan   » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:38 pm

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C. O. Thompson wrote:<SNIP>
And I still think he is a weaselly snot
:-(


The only argument you will get with me on that one is that a lot nicer than I would say :lol:

Personally, I think of him as worse in some ways than Clyntahn, because Clyntahn often does things out of pure spleen, which is bad enough, Rayno doesn't. He is always so calm and collected, not allowing his emotions to drive him as Clyntahn often does, but considers most of what Clyntahn does the right thing to do anyway. I.e. the Dohlaran sailors that Sarmouth got the prisoners back from. Rayno KNOWS that there was nothing they could have done to win the battle, but aside from the timing he agrees that, "examples must be made."
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SPOILER- Re: Rayno ... the ultimate YES MAN -SPOILER
Post by lyonheart   » Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:11 am

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Hi C. O. Thompson,

Actually, a very interesting description of somebody's end, as in LotR, ie "sharkey's end".

L


C. O. Thompson wrote:
Henry Brown wrote:One other important point to consider: Rayno manipulated the votes in order to elect Clyntahn as Grand Inquisitor in the first place. The clear implication is that without his manipulation, Clyntahn would have lost. To me, this suggest that he already had a close relationship with Clyntahn before he became Grand Inquisitor. It also explains why Clyntahn seems to regard him with so much trust.



Yes. I remember that and think that brings the old "Be careful what you wish for... you just might get it" philosophy to mind. To me it looks like he continues to enable Clynthan to hold his own position but, if he was more than a yes man, he would put a knife in the Grand Inquisitors ribs or back because he sees the fear and indecision coming forward.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Rayno ... the ultimate YES MAN
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:13 pm

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<snip>
Hi C. O. Thompson,

Actually, a very interesting description of somebody's end, as in LotR, ie "sharkey's end".

L
<snip>
Lionheart,

Sorry I don't get the LotR reference
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: Rayno ... the ultimate YES MAN
Post by Louis R   » Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:08 pm

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The last battle of the War of the Ring was actually fought in the Shire, between servants of a leader known as 'Sharkey' and the hobbits lead by Merry, Pippin, Sam & Frodo. After the battle it turned out that Sharkey was an Orkish nickname for Saruman, who had come to the Shire after being let out of Orthanc. He was killed by Wormtongue outside Bag End, and when the dug-up holes of Bagshot Row were rebuilt, the locals started calling the street "Sharkey's End". [which is a rather British pun: an end is a little short bit of road]

C. O. Thompson wrote:<snip>
Hi C. O. Thompson,

Actually, a very interesting description of somebody's end, as in LotR, ie "sharkey's end".

L
<snip>
Lionheart,

Sorry I don't get the LotR reference
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Re: Rayno ... the ultimate YES MAN
Post by Louis R   » Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:18 pm

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I think it will be found that Rayno is far more Clyntahn's "No, man!" than yes man. He doesn't off Clyntahn because he thinks Clyntahn is the man for the job, and agrees with him on what the job is. But, he regularly talks him out of things that will get in the way of doing the job - or doesn't even let Clyntahn find out information that might lead him to do so. Which habit he is starting to find somewhat nerve-wracking.


n7axw wrote:
C. O. Thompson wrote:

Yes. I remember that and think that brings the old "Be careful what you wish for... you just might get it" philosophy to mind. To me it looks like he continues to enable Clynthan to hold his own position but, if he was more than a yes man, he would put a knife in the Grand Inquisitors ribs or back because he sees the fear and indecision coming forward.


Rayno believes in Clyntahns policies. His role seems to be the rational voice in Clyntahn's ear when Clyntahn is emoting. It has always been intriguing to me both that Rayno has the nerve to play that role and that Clyntahn is willing to put up with it.

Don

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Re: Rayno ... the ultimate YES MAN -- spoiler
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:20 pm

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I think thar Rayno's end reveals he was the ultimate sycophant.
The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Rayno ... the ultimate YES MAN
Post by ecortez   » Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:07 pm

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Rayno is a sociopath like Clyntahn. At first he attached himself to the man because he didn't have the right connections to become Grand Inquisitor personally. This was part of the reason Clyntahn trusted him. Rayno's personal wealth and power depended entirely on his patronage. Their interests were aligned. And self-interest is a motive Clyntahn understands very well. Of course, after he seized absolute power Rayno found himself increasingly walking a fine line. Clyntahn is unbalanced and hard to predict. This only gets worse as it starts to sink in that he's going to lose the war with Charis. And given what they've been doing to his inquisitors, there can be no doubt about his own fate.

Rayno definitely lies to him. In fact, the reader is taken through his mental process of separating information into lies he can get away with, and lies that Clyntahn will eventually become aware of. He has no real qualms about hiding or fabricating details when he knows the Grand Inquisitor won't ever find out. When he would, Rayno makes sure to be the one who tells him the truth because that further establishes his reliability. How Rayno felt about the Jihad was curiously neglected. At least I can't personally remember him contemplating that. Just the details of conducting the war. If you read pretty much any passage from any of the books told from his perspective, there's a lot of calculation in his thinking. It seems like the only loyalty Rayno ever truly had was to himself.
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Re: Rayno ... the ultimate YES MAN
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:07 pm

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Louis R wrote:The last battle of the War of the Ring was actually fought in the Shire, between servants of a leader known as 'Sharkey' and the hobbits lead by Merry, Pippin, Sam & Frodo. After the battle it turned out that Sharkey was an Orkish nickname for Saruman, who had come to the Shire after being let out of Orthanc. He was killed by Wormtongue outside Bag End, and when the dug-up holes of Bagshot Row were rebuilt, the locals started calling the street "Sharkey's End". [which is a rather British pun: an end is a little short bit of road]

C. O. Thompson wrote:<snip>
Hi C. O. Thompson,

Actually, a very interesting description of somebody's end, as in LotR, ie "sharkey's end".

L
<snip>
Lionheart,

Sorry I don't get the LotR reference


Got it!!

Yes!! Wormtongue is a lot like Rayno in MHO and, now that I have finished the latest book here, HMMMMMM
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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