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What speaks to you?

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What speaks to you?
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:38 am

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I just reread the scene in Camp Chairio where Stephyny asked Father Kuhnymychu for food for her father, on my Kindle, and I noticed that 63 people had highlighted the first half of the reference from the Book of Bedard that begins "Do not despise the wisdom of childhood...". The thing that caught attention is that I had highlighted the last half of those instructions about how a child's questions require answer; when I read the book the last time and no one else highlighted the same passage.

When I was younger, I studied the Bible extensively for about 20 years and I used a colored highlighter to mark out the verses that spoke to me... often the next time I studied that same Book, I would find that other verses spoke to me and I would highlight them with a different color.
Eventually, I began to suspect that the dearth of agreement among denominations arose from this kind of focus and how one group believe one thing (Romans 14) but the weak condemn the one whose faith is strong.

I pick up a lot of morality questions in Davids writing and, in fact, this is one of the things I enjoy most.

I believe that this series points to the fact that in the battle between good and evil, most of us are in the middle but, that most of us either think that the responsibility to take action is above our pay grade.

In the “Safehold Universe”, we meet a full spectrum of characters from the misogynistic, egotistical, bigoted self-assured, narcissistic zealot who gains the most powerful job on the planet (in fact if not “on paper”)who sets out to destroy any threat to his power and the king of a plucky small nation that teaches, “All men are created equal” who refuses to roll over and die.

I find myself (for the first time in my life) faced with a feeling that I must choose between the less of two evils all the while thinking that either choice is still evil and wondering how it came to this.

Time and again in this series, we see people in moral conflict and that the uniform that one wears does not decide on what they believe in their heart of hearts.
Resentment and hatred of people that think differently along with refusal to be tolerant seem to be found in the followers of the man who is misogynistic, egotistical, bigoted self-assured, narcissistic... in that universe and ours.

Not saying that David had the Donald in mind when he started writing this series in 2006-7 but it does give a perspective of what things might be like if he were elected when the senate is already so strongly in opposition to the alternative including refusal to review nominee for Supreme Court or to do several other things in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty.

But, hey... I have been wrong before and I have seen other things as more important as I mature... but I have not changed about that constitutional responsibility of We the People since I first read it
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: What speaks to you?
Post by Peter2   » Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:19 pm

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C. O. Thompson wrote:
[snip]

Not saying that David had the Donald in mind when he started writing this series in 2006-7 but it does give a perspective of what things might be like if he were elected when the senate is already so strongly in opposition to the alternative including refusal to review nominee for Supreme Court or to do several other things in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty.

But, hey... I have been wrong before and I have seen other things as more important as I mature... but I have not changed about that constitutional responsibility of We the People since I first read it


One of the reasons that I have so little time for both national politicians and the press is that both classes are expert in telling the truth in a manner calculated to deceive, and that they make ruthless use of that skill to mislead others. OK, no generalisation is completely true, but I find the world makes more sense if I take what they say with rather more than one grain of salt. The main objectives of a national politician are first to retain his/her position and second to gain power, and any good he/she does is secondary. And the main objective of a pressman (of either sex) is to sell papers – or to keep you watching, or listening.

News, by its very nature, gives a biased view of the world, simply because it is out of the ordinary.

That's my view, anyway. Feel free to disagree! :)
.
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Re: What speaks to you?
Post by n7axw   » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:17 pm

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C. O. Thompson wrote:I just reread the scene in Camp Chairio where Stephyny asked Father Kuhnymychu for food for her father, on my Kindle, and I noticed that 63 people had highlighted the first half of the reference from the Book of Bedard that begins "Do not despise the wisdom of childhood...". The thing that caught attention is that I had highlighted the last half of those instructions about how a child's questions require answer; when I read the book the last time and no one else highlighted the same passage.

When I was younger, I studied the Bible extensively for about 20 years and I used a colored highlighter to mark out the verses that spoke to me... often the next time I studied that same Book, I would find that other verses spoke to me and I would highlight them with a different color.
Eventually, I began to suspect that the dearth of agreement among denominations arose from this kind of focus and how one group believe one thing (Romans 14) but the weak condemn the one whose faith is strong.

I pick up a lot of morality questions in Davids writing and, in fact, this is one of the things I enjoy most.

I believe that this series points to the fact that in the battle between good and evil, most of us are in the middle but, that most of us either think that the responsibility to take action is above our pay grade.

In the “Safehold Universe”, we meet a full spectrum of characters from the misogynistic, egotistical, bigoted self-assured, narcissistic zealot who gains the most powerful job on the planet (in fact if not “on paper”)who sets out to destroy any threat to his power and the king of a plucky small nation that teaches, “All men are created equal” who refuses to roll over and die.

I find myself (for the first time in my life) faced with a feeling that I must choose between the less of two evils all the while thinking that either choice is still evil and wondering how it came to this.

Time and again in this series, we see people in moral conflict and that the uniform that one wears does not decide on what they believe in their heart of hearts.
Resentment and hatred of people that think differently along with refusal to be tolerant seem to be found in the followers of the man who is misogynistic, egotistical, bigoted self-assured, narcissistic... in that universe and ours.

Not saying that David had the Donald in mind when he started writing this series in 2006-7 but it does give a perspective of what things might be like if he were elected when the senate is already so strongly in opposition to the alternative including refusal to review nominee for Supreme Court or to do several other things in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty.

But, hey... I have been wrong before and I have seen other things as more important as I mature... but I have not changed about that constitutional responsibility of We the People since I first read it


I am not going to comment on this here although I do have some very emphatic opinions. Best for those who want to discuss the Donald and the Lady to move it over to the free forums where those who wish to do so can participate.

Me, I'm here to discuss the works of David Weber and am looking forward to two new ones in two weeks! :D

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: What speaks to you?
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:12 pm

C. O. Thompson
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Posts: 695
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n7axw wrote:
C. O. Thompson wrote:I just reread the scene in Camp Chairio where Stephyny asked Father Kuhnymychu for food for her father, on my Kindle, and I noticed that 63 people had highlighted the first half of the reference from the Book of Bedard that begins "Do not despise the wisdom of childhood...". The thing that caught attention is that I had highlighted the last half of those instructions about how a child's questions require answer; when I read the book the last time and no one else highlighted the same passage.

When I was younger, I studied the Bible extensively for about 20 years and I used a colored highlighter to mark out the verses that spoke to me... often the next time I studied that same Book, I would find that other verses spoke to me and I would highlight them with a different color.
Eventually, I began to suspect that the dearth of agreement among denominations arose from this kind of focus and how one group believe one thing (Romans 14) but the weak condemn the one whose faith is strong.

I pick up a lot of morality questions in Davids writing and, in fact, this is one of the things I enjoy most.

I believe that this series points to the fact that in the battle between good and evil, most of us are in the middle but, that most of us either think that the responsibility to take action is above our pay grade.

In the “Safehold Universe”, we meet a full spectrum of characters from the misogynistic, egotistical, bigoted self-assured, narcissistic zealot who gains the most powerful job on the planet (in fact if not “on paper”)who sets out to destroy any threat to his power and the king of a plucky small nation that teaches, “All men are created equal” who refuses to roll over and die.

I find myself (for the first time in my life) faced with a feeling that I must choose between the less of two evils all the while thinking that either choice is still evil and wondering how it came to this.

Time and again in this series, we see people in moral conflict and that the uniform that one wears does not decide on what they believe in their heart of hearts.
Resentment and hatred of people that think differently along with refusal to be tolerant seem to be found in the followers of the man who is misogynistic, egotistical, bigoted self-assured, narcissistic... in that universe and ours.

Not saying that David had the Donald in mind when he started writing this series in 2006-7 but it does give a perspective of what things might be like if he were elected when the senate is already so strongly in opposition to the alternative including refusal to review nominee for Supreme Court or to do several other things in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty.

But, hey... I have been wrong before and I have seen other things as more important as I mature... but I have not changed about that constitutional responsibility of We the People since I first read it


I am not going to comment on this here although I do have some very emphatic opinions. Best for those who want to discuss the Donald and the Lady to move it over to the free forums where those who wish to do so can participate.

Me, I'm here to discuss the works of David Weber and am looking forward to two new ones in two weeks! :D

Don

-



Don,
I wan not specifically discussing the candidates for US President except as a case in point of how the morality issues and love of power shape the discussions of morality.

More, I was observing how people who want to be decent and moral get chewed up in the conflict of the people at each end of the spectrum of the topic and... how polarized we can become with half of verse of the scripture of our choice.

Most of the people and event in these Safehold books are at neither extreme of the issue. Neither uniform, nor hair color (genetics), region of birth nor any other factor lets us know what a person thinks... it is by their actions and perhaps by their words we know.

I believe that David could get a PhD in Anthropology for the revelation of human nature in these books...
But HEY, I have been wrong before
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: What speaks to you?
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:56 am

C. O. Thompson
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Posts: 695
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This morning while re-reading HFQ, as I thought about the "after action" conference where the AOG got the snot kicked out of it... I saw the comment that many who had been told that God was on their side had reason to rethink that... This is one of the thoughts that had been on the edge of my consciousness when I started this thread...
How arrogant the people that take a few verses of their holy book to form a platform that God must surly bless...
I recall that Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness (Genesis 15) yet, this man who became key figure to so many of the "great religions" immediately set out to "help God" fulfill his promise... he named Lot as his heir and he slept with the slave girl because he and his wife had not produced a child...

There is a way that seems right to a man but in the end...

I see these books and life on Safehold as a marvelous way to look at our own failures with out personalizing the failures as ours.

That scene at Camp Chirio when the priest is confronted by the little girl, he warns himself not to put a name to the child because he knew that we have a harder time hating if we see "the enemy" as humans and individuals.

So... should we follow people who pick and choose the parts of the "TRUTH" that supports what we want to believe?
Rayno thought that his boss was ignoring the facts he did not chose to believe and yet, Rayno supported the system... Out of fear? or because he has too much invested in it?

Just thinking
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: What speaks to you?
Post by n7axw   » Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:57 pm

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C. O. Thompson wrote:

Don,
I wan not specifically discussing the candidates for US President except as a case in point of how the morality issues and love of power shape the discussions of morality.

More, I was observing how people who want to be decent and moral get chewed up in the conflict of the people at each end of the spectrum of the topic and... how polarized we can become with half of verse of the scripture of our choice.

Most of the people and event in these Safehold books are at neither extreme of the issue. Neither uniform, nor hair color (genetics), region of birth nor any other factor lets us know what a person thinks... it is by their actions and perhaps by their words we know.

I believe that David could get a PhD in Anthropology for the revelation of human nature in these books...
But HEY, I have been wrong before


I might be a bit overly sensitive about this. There have been some posters in the past with very definite opinions who weren't overly gracious about being disagreed with. I got tangled up in one of those discussions once and have steered clear of them since.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: What speaks to you?
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:02 pm

C. O. Thompson
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Posts: 695
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Location: Thompson, CT USA

n7axw wrote:
C. O. Thompson wrote:

Don,
I wan not specifically discussing the candidates for US President except as a case in point of how the morality issues and love of power shape the discussions of morality.

More, I was observing how people who want to be decent and moral get chewed up in the conflict of the people at each end of the spectrum of the topic and... how polarized we can become with half of verse of the scripture of our choice.

Most of the people and event in these Safehold books are at neither extreme of the issue. Neither uniform, nor hair color (genetics), region of birth nor any other factor lets us know what a person thinks... it is by their actions and perhaps by their words we know.

I believe that David could get a PhD in Anthropology for the revelation of human nature in these books...
But HEY, I have been wrong before


I might be a bit overly sensitive about this. There have been some posters in the past with very definite opinions who weren't overly gracious about being disagreed with. I got tangled up in one of those discussions once and have steered clear of them since.

Don

-


Previously, I had posted that my mother tried to teach me not to argue politics or religion... where is the fun in avoiding these topics?
While I understand that both require a kind of faith to build your convictions on, and ... "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"(Heb.11:1)
And THINGS HOPED FOR whether we hope for honest government or a reward in the after life, is based on THINGS NOT SEEN.

My comment at the start of this topic was that we base our belief on "what speaks to us" THINGS NOT SEEN... THINGS HOPED FOR and if we should not argue theses intangibles, should we wage war over them? Should we follow leaders who may have the same kind of motives as Jasper Clinton (I have trouble trying to pronounce as David spells and even more trouble spelling what I cannot pronounce)

Go back to my earlier point... in the battle between good and evil, it seems that 98% of us are somewhere in between the ultimate ends of the spectrum.

As I re-read these books, something that was on the edge of my mind moved more to the center. It is much harder to hate people we know personally (unless we feel they did us wrong) but if we dehumanize our enemy, then we can be led to all sorts of atrocities. The priest who allowed himself to ask the littler girl her name, knew the danger and he was put to the Punishment when he let the spirit of God speak to him.

I don't know... maybe it is my 10¢ this time ;-)
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: What speaks to you?
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:35 pm

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Just came across this and think that the story line in Safehold and our own history have enough in common to be really scary

https://www.facebook.com/thefreethought ... 83/?type=3
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: What speaks to you?
Post by n7axw   » Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:40 pm

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C. O. Thompson wrote:Just came across this and think that the story line in Safehold and our own history have enough in common to be really scary

https://www.facebook.com/thefreethought ... 83/?type=3


Read the facebook entry. What impresses me is more how it contrasts with our story line. Safehold's story is comparatively simple, flowing out of the decisions of a small group of people. Ours, by way of contrast, is incredibly complex, messy. Both of those words describe that discussion to a t.

Hail to the good, the bad, and the ugly. They are all a part of the mix.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: What speaks to you?
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:42 am

C. O. Thompson
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Posts: 695
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Location: Thompson, CT USA

n7axw wrote:
C. O. Thompson wrote:Just came across this and think that the story line in Safehold and our own history have enough in common to be really scary

https://www.facebook.com/thefreethought ... 83/?type=3


Read the facebook entry. What impresses me is more how it contrasts with our story line.

Safehold's story is comparatively simple, flowing out of the decisions of a small group of people. Ours, by way of contrast, is incredibly complex, messy. Both of those words describe that discussion to a t.

Hail to the good, the bad, and the ugly. They are all a part of the mix.

Don

-


You don't think that Hitler's Germany or the Red Russia or thew American or French Revolutions for that matter started from decisions of small groups of people... or that the gridlock in DC or funding of the men and women who executed that gridlock comes from the small group (compared to the population) of people???

Someone has an idea and gets others to endorse it as Clanthyn did with the group of four to buy onto his "Final Solution".
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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