Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 64 guests

ATST Snippet #2

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: ATST Snippet #2
Post by WeberFan   » Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:05 pm

WeberFan
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:12 am

lyonheart wrote:Hi Weberfan,

I'm quite familiar with PSP or 'Marston Mat', but given it's made out of steel, it will be a rather long while before such will be used on Safehold, especially in the 2 million ton volume made during WW2.

The small team of Seabees you refer to was usually a battalion of several hundred men tasked with building a fighter airfield in 2-4 weeks depending on various factors.

The Seabees in question were laying the PSP or 'Pieced Steel Planking' on top of the prepared load bearing surface they had spent at least a couple of weeks preparing; sometimes under very bad conditions it took monthes to get to that stage; it was extremely rare where the Seabees or anyone else could lay PSP on a sandy beach and have it hold up or last for more than a couple of weeks, and since a 200' X 5000' runway required some 2640 tons of Marston Matting [most fighter runways were 150' X 3000'], it obviously involved quite a bit of prior planning and preparation, with the 48 hour straight marathon of finally laying the PSP being a culmination of both a challenge to set a new construction or assembly record and a celebration of sorts, ie almost everyone released from all other duties to get the job finally done as quickly as possible.

Just laying it on top of an unprepared surface could lead to messes like Foggia, Italy; from the fall of '43 through the winter of'44, where the whole airfield complex had to be rebuilt of much sturdier stuff.

Since even the typical 'small' fighter airfield involved linking 3 of the above runways in a triangle, such an airfield with it its wider taxiways could run to 5,000 tons of PSP, which often took a while to assemble.

That didn't include the tens of thousands of tons of gravel [often by dredging coral reefs] used as a base, that had to found and processed first, so it was not a substitute for gravel.

I'm afraid my only suggestion that survived RFC's 'vicious gang of facts' was adding an extra set of wheels outboard of the originals to spread the current 10 ton load further. ;)

L


WeberFan wrote:Another rapid roadbuilding variant is the perforated steel mat - called the "Marston Mat" that has been used since WWII in various forms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marston_Mat

I remember landing on the SATS airfield at MCAF 29 Palms many years ago - the "expeditionary field" they had out there. A bit slick when wet, but otherwise fine.

At the Wikipedia site, you'll note that a small team of Seabees could build a 200 ft by 5000 ft runway in a couple of days. So a 20-foot-wide road X 50,000-foot long road could be built in that time (OK, a bit shorter due to adverse current conditions).

As to the weight issue, a 15-inch by 10-foot segment weighed only 66 pounds. A LOT less than gravel, and a LOT smoother than corduroy... ;)

Not disagreeing with you Lyonhart.

Just as a point of reference, however:
Per Wikipedia, one panel (15" X 10 feet) is 66 lbs.
5000 foot X 10 foot "road" would require 4000 panels.
4000 panels would weigh in at 132 tons (2000 lb/ton).
Given the armor plating on an average vessel, this isn't really that much.

Of course you have to consider the need for a prepared base to lay the mat upon. Of course you have to prioritize the steel production and use. I get all that... and more.

Cheers
Top
Re: ATST Snippet #2
Post by Weird Harold   » Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:26 pm

Weird Harold
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4478
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:25 pm
Location: "Lost Wages", NV

WeberFan wrote:Of course you have to consider the need for a prepared base to lay the mat upon. Of course you have to prioritize the steel production and use. I get all that... and more.


The mats don't have to be made of steel or even metal. Woven mats -- canvas, reeds, withies, or whatever -- covered by stone, gravel, or more woven mats -- can provide a solid base over unstable ground.

FWIW, many of the taxiways at Da Nang and Phu Cat were aluminum matting rather than PSP. The holes in PSP didn't work well with Jet engine intakes that sucked up anything loose and damaged engines.

The aluminum mats were wider and thicker than PSP, so probably about the same weight/unit but covered more square feet/panel.
.
.
.
Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
Top
Re: ATST Snippet #2
Post by lyonheart   » Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:13 am

lyonheart
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4853
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:27 pm

Hi Weird Harold,

"Da Nang, the rainy season?"

-One of the many excellent lines from my favorite TV show's [Remington Steele] first season [CIA/marriage episode].

Using lots of woven mats is a great idea given aluminum requires electricity.

The woven mats could be made by civilians of non strategic materials on a massive scale in the coming year, perhaps thick enough to be water proof or glued to a waterproof liner, or long sheets [300' long 36-43" wide] of asphalted burlap [known as Prefabricated Burlap Surfacing or PBS] used as a base for ALG's [Advanced Landing grounds]after D-day. [see Wikipedia on ALG's]

My brother was a helicopter pilot in Vietnam, mainly I Corps region in the tri-border area with Laos, IIRC.

My understanding of the PSP problem was that the constant rains could erode the dirt leaving the pebbles isolated and easily blasted out and about by the jet/turbine engines.

Being 2' wide and 12' long the aluminum 'planks' were almost twice the area, but at ~2/3 the weight/area, they were only around 90 lbs even with the corrugations for strength and drainage.

L


Weird Harold wrote:
WeberFan wrote:Of course you have to consider the need for a prepared base to lay the mat upon. Of course you have to prioritize the steel production and use. I get all that... and more.


The mats don't have to be made of steel or even metal. Woven mats -- canvas, reeds, withies, or whatever -- covered by stone, gravel, or more woven mats -- can provide a solid base over unstable ground.

FWIW, many of the taxiways at Da Nang and Phu Cat were aluminum matting rather than PSP. The holes in PSP didn't work well with Jet engine intakes that sucked up anything loose and damaged engines.

The aluminum mats were wider and thicker than PSP, so probably about the same weight/unit but covered more square feet/panel.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
Top

Return to Safehold