The Navy of God against Charis naval superiority

One of the main reasons to build the KH VII was its cruising range. That range allows Charis to project power as well shepherd merchantmen. More but smaller cruisers would be sufficient for escort duty. Building steam colliers to accompany the escort cruisers would have been cheaper than building the KH VIIs.

I can only conclude that power projection was an essential element in Charis' strategic vision. Power projection means being able to take out forts guarding port cities. Those 10 inchers are the biggest guns in existence. The Jihadists need some serious development to create comparable weapons. Until they do, the ICN pound the snott out of any fort. When the jihadists develop something that pierce 6 inches of hardened armour, Howsmyn builds the Seijin Khody class uber-dreadnought with 10 inches of face hardened steel armour firing 6 triple turreted 12" rifles with shells filled with true HE.

By that time some sort of gyroscopes will be developed and accuracy will be much better and ranges will be extended further. So ICN floating fortresses will continue to be developed so long as the proscriptions remain and the CoGA exists.

Aethor wrote:
Once they reveal the full truth, there won't be much anyone else can do about it. Maybe a couple of internal rebellions, but nothing on the scale of the current war.

O, just a risk of the fall of entire civilization. Really, nothing to worry about...

Dilandu wrote:
They need monitors. Low-sides, slow, unseaworthy monitors that could smash any coastal fortifications and defeat any coastal fleets.

Time for some map study.
The war is on the mainland. ICN warships are built on the islands of the Empire. These low freeboard, unseaworthy monitors have to be able to get to the mainland. They simply are not going to be able to survive the oceans of Safehold. I don't know if you've done any bluewater sailing but 15 and 20 ft waves are scary and they are not uncommon at sea. THey get a lot higher and steeper in storms. !5 and 20 ft waves will wash over the monitors. I leave it to your imagination what 30 and 40 ft waves will do to them.

This type of warship might make sense for the Republic's Navy. They won't have to go offshore to get to the war.

Another problem with the unseaworthy monitors is how are you going to find Charisian, Chisholmian or Corisandian seamen to serve on them.
Sorry I type so slowly

Dilandu wrote:Randomiser, you are completely ignore just one point: there are NO threat to the Charis on the seas at all. There are simply no other navy that have ANY ironclad battleships at all.

SNIP

Dilandu,

I believe you are missing the point. Domination of the Seaways is not static. Projecting the Power of the ICN worldwide is the goal and maintaining that control. The 28 Riverboats that have been completed and have the new recoil guns will remove any current opposition from the Seaways and will operate in concert with the eventual 6 KH's planned. This group in concert with the existing common Galleon navy that is in existance will give long term control of the seas. Breathing room to support worldwide war.

LOGISTICS will win this war!

In addition the infrastructure for the KH construction is the main point behind the scenes. What are we building next? If the war ends in the next decade what will the markets in the world be - how does The Charisian Empire move toward a World Economy focused on (New?) Technology

Randomiser, you are completely ignore just one point: there are NO threat to the Charis on the seas at all. There are simply no other navy that have ANY ironclad battleships at all.

As Drake and Flint like to say: "Every battle plan gets fucked up as soon as the enemy arrives. That is why he is called the enemy." It does not matter one whit that you think there is no threat to Charis on the seas. What matters is that Charis has to have ways to defend against or mitigate any probable threat that could appear. The Church has shown a great deal of ability to adapt to new conditions and produce weapons which are good enough to counter Charis' superior methods. With the Church in possession of explosive shells, prototype armor clad vessels, improved metallurgy, and steam engine blueprints, Charis should not sit around pissing away time and let the Church close the gap. Charis should be extending its capabilities to ensure that the Church continues to remain ineffective.

Once Dohlar is occupied, and Silkiah (if Charisians don't take Silkiah, Siddarmarkians will), the ICN can block any transport between Haven and Howard, thus preventing any tithes from South Harchong, Desnair, Sodar and Delferahk from reaching the mainland Church.

A couple KHs can keep the Hsing-Wu passage clear of anything North Harchong could send to help from the west. There doesn't have to be many of them, and a squadron of regular galleons can help against any small fries along the way.

Ok. But why the KH's? They could probably build a four-to-six smaller, wooden-hulled OCEAN ironclads (for example, look at french "Alma" type) by the cost of one "King Haarald". It would be seaworthy, it would be able to crush any wooden galleon or coastal galleys fleet, and it would be cheaper, avaliable sooner and in greater numbers!

I may agree that they need ocean ironclads at all. But those outstandish monsters is the perfect demonstration of "put all eggs in one backet" policy.

Second, production of KHs serves to improve Charisian industry so it can tackle on other stuff, not necessarily warships. Experience in building steam engines makes for a good start at building a railway network.

Not the point. The naval building could improve the industry, but in therms of internal resources concentration and persuading people of the need to spend money on industry for their defense. For Charis, main factor hindering the industrialization is the limited capability to produce the industrial machines, not the money of peoples opinion.

PeterZ wrote:One of the main reasons to build the KH VII was its cruising range. That range allows Charis to project power as well shepherd merchantmen. More but smaller cruisers would be sufficient for escort duty. Building steam colliers to accompany the escort cruisers would have been cheaper than building the KH VIIs.

That the point! If Charis even need the ocean ironclads, why they don't build some "Alma"'s?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alma-class_ironclad

3900 tonnes, perfect seaworthy, 150 mm belt armour, 11 knots and six 194-mm and four 120-mm guns. Take her, put the triple-expansion machine on her, arm her with your eight-inches or even ten-inches rifles and she destroy any galleon fleet.

EdThomas wrote:Time for some map study.
The war is on the mainland. ICN warships are built on the islands of the Empire. These low freeboard, unseaworthy monitors have to be able to get to the mainland. They simply are not going to be able to survive the oceans of Safehold.

Time for some naval history study. The monitors COULD cross the seas. In 1866, the "Miantonomo" crossed the Atlantic Ocean twice, and "Monadnock" travel from Boston to San-Francisco.

What the monitors couldn't do, is to battle in rought weather. This is their main disavantage; their guns are too low. But in coastal waters, they were kings and emperors for all XIX century.

P.S. And remember "Huascar". She were able to fight in not-so-calm sea.

For some demonstration - my own alternate-history project of large 1880-th coastal monitor;



http://alternathistory.org.ua/files/use ... tune_0.png

(the lager version under the link)

Low sides - high barbette mounts with disappearing guns, that made possible to use weapons in at least not ideal weather.

Dilandu wrote:

n7axw wrote:They did manage to steal one of Housymn's latest formulas for steal at the same time they got the description for steam engines, but I'm not sure how much it helps them out.

Don

Well, at least they have a starting point to work for. And don't forget - they KNEW ALREADY that the steam engine would work and work good. So they have more than Earth inventors have.

I agree, it would be a awful lot of work on standartisation and production, but i think they could produce at least the industrial-type steam engines - like early Watt or Polzunov machines - in a few years. True, they would be not ideal, but they would be an enormous help with the Church industrialisation.

After all, the Merlin main goal is to bring progress in minds of all Safeholdian' not just Charisian's. If the Church started to experimenting with steam engines, it would be so giant leap in the ultimately right direction, that he may even help them a little (after all, Charis already have a triple-expansion machines!)

All very fine and well... after the G-4 has been ousted and the military and political power of the COGA is broken.

Don