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The Navy of God against Charis naval superiority

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The Navy of God against Charis naval superiority
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:54 am

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What could possible the Church (or Dohlar, for example) produce to compensate the Charis naval superiority - at least, partially? They certainly will not be able for a long time to challenge Charis on the high seas, but in the coastal waters - it's a different story.

I think first of all about the possibility of some mines. the Church is familiar with the Charisian landmines; obviously does not require any special effort to think of the concept to the sea mine. Without electricity, the naval mines wouldn't be so effective as on earth, but evem with primitive firing mechanism they could be dangerous for enemy ships. And they are simple and relatively cheap to produce, and they COULD make Charisian coastal operation a lot more difficult.

The next possible thing is some sort of "disappearing" mounts for coastal artllery, which allows the guns to be raised for a shot and lowered to recharge. Similar gun mounts, nestled in the pits, will be much more difficult target for naval guns than old-style batteries.

And, of course, we must not forget that the Church has (now) at least a fundamental understanding of the steam engines - i.e. of steam engines and steam industrial equipment. Of course, it will take time for the development of these technologies, and they will (at first) is much more primitive than that of Charis. But it looks possible that the Church will be able to create at least some armored battleships for coastal defense; Low Sides, slow-moving, but more or less adequately protected, so that the battleships of Charis could not just destroy them from the overwhelming range and would be forced to came in range of inferior Church guns.
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Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: The Navy of God against Charis naval superiority
Post by Icarium   » Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:23 am

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I think it ... unlikely that the church will duplicate steam engines. They could have totally perfect blueprints, but without precise measurements for instance (something mentioned in one of the books on the Church's side), they aren't going to make steam engines past a certain type.

These could certainly be used for certain tasks, but they aren't the sort of tasks that the church will WANT to use them for. Mine pumps for instance, or slow trains.

Basically, the church lacks the infrastructure. Charis managed to 'gear up' relatively quickly, and that took years. The church is unlikely to do so as quickly, and even if they did, those are years where Charis' infrastructure and technology is advancing further. So by the time the Church has working steam engines, even simple ones, in enough numbers to make any sort of difference, Charis could potentially have WW2 era battleships or worse.

The mines, on the other hand, are a possibility. I can even see Clyntahn saying 'screw the risks' and doing so.
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Re: The Navy of God against Charis naval superiority
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:35 am

Dilandu
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Well, they undoubtely could build a simple Newcomen-type machine for industrial need, and possibly - given some time, they could build a more effective beam or side-lever steam engine. After all, if all we need is to "move at all", even the primitive steam engines could be used.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: The Navy of God against Charis naval superiority
Post by Icarium   » Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:52 am

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Well yeah, that's what I meant by mine pumps and slow trains. But the sort of steam engines they use wouldn't really be suitable for warships.

Funny thing is, those sort of simple steam engines? Are amazing - absolutely /amazing/ - for industrialization. But for war, not so much. And to Clyntahn, it's all about the war.
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Re: The Navy of God against Charis naval superiority
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:59 am

Dilandu
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But some others - Duchrain, for example - may think about it in more pragmatical therms. And the Church mechanics have at least one thing on their side: they knew that the steam engines are practical and that more powerfull engines REALLY could be build.

And after all, you didn't need very much horsepowers for coastal service ironclads... ;)
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: The Navy of God against Charis naval superiority
Post by lyonheart   » Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:53 am

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Hi Dilandu,

Howsmyn was able to compress a couple centuries of steam engine development into a couple of years thanks to OWL etc; the Go4 has no such guide or mentor, so it has 2 centuries of mistakes and learning experiences ahead of it, sometimes involving apparently unrelated developments in control systems, besides the obvious in metallurgy and standardization of measurements etc.

Mines have been discussed in threads before, but building them in the vast numbers needed, then deploying them against the watchful eye of the ICN, NTM OWL's SNARC's without a helpful seijin pointing them out or sabotaging them, will be difficult.

L


Dilandu wrote:But some others - Duchrain, for example - may think about it in more pragmatical therms. And the Church mechanics have at least one thing on their side: they knew that the steam engines are practical and that more powerfull engines REALLY could be build.

And after all, you didn't need very much horsepowers for coastal service ironclads... ;)
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: The Navy of God against Charis naval superiority
Post by Randomiser   » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:53 am

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Then the Church has to produce enough armour plate to make a significant number of these armoured warships, something even Charis has had difficulty doing. (Their metallurgy is way behind Housemanns so they need about twice the weight of armour to do much good.) Just enough power to move is not sufficient. Have you been reading the naval battles? Mobility is an absolute requirement. They have to do all this in an innovation averse environment with severe competition for all the resources required and they have to do it all in about 7 or 8 months tops before the King Haarahld class ships come calling and destroy their one remaining naval centre. NO chance.
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Re: The Navy of God against Charis naval superiority
Post by n7axw   » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:07 am

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And not only the King Haarahlds, but thr riverclads once the Salthar canal is taken. If they had the idea and some time, they could do mines, but I'm afraid they have neither.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: The Navy of God against Charis naval superiority
Post by n7axw   » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:15 am

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Randomiser wrote:Then the Church has to produce enough armour plate to make a significant number of these armoured warships, something even Charis has had difficulty doing. (Their metallurgy is way behind Housemanns so they need about twice the weight of armour to do much good.) Just enough power to move is not sufficient. Have you been reading the naval battles? Mobility is an absolute requirement. They have to do all this in an innovation averse environment with severe competition for all the resources required and they have to do it all in about 7 or 8 months tops before the King Haarahld class ships come calling and destroy their one remaining naval centre. NO chance.


They did manage to steal one of Housymn's latest formulas for steal at the same time they got the description for steam engines, but I'm not sure how much it helps them out.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: The Navy of God against Charis naval superiority
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:16 am

Dilandu
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Mines have been discussed in threads before, but building them in the vast numbers needed, then deploying them against the watchful eye of the ICN, NTM OWL's SNARC's without a helpful seijin pointing them out or sabotaging them, will be difficult.


Hi, Lionheart!

Well, i hope Nimue wouldn't change her alter-ego name to the Mary Sue? ;) Merlin more than once demonstrated, that he didn't like to interfere unless the situation is absolutely critical.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top

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