HFQ Official Snippet #3 (sort of)

DrakBibliophile wrote:Cite please.

I've heard about too many "conspiracy stories" where "secret" documents held by the Roman Catholic Church "prove" whatever the "secret history" the conspiracy buff wants us to believe.

The existence of the "Archivio Segreto Vaticano" is official, they have documents up to VIIIth century at least and there is a reserved section called Hell where non Catholic faith documents are kept. All that is acknowledged on many Vatican sites including official one.

In particular, they had previously unknown Dominicans documents about Catharism that were released for the 800th anniversay of the beginning of the Albigensian crusade in 2009. Nothing really astonishing, but it was a whole new set of archives about a troubled period where we lack many accounts.

Note that this is not under Inquisition duties, the "Archivio Congregatio pro Doctrina Fidei" were only created in XVIth century and are the archives of the tribunal that is the real role of the Inquisition.

Very few researchers had in the past access to the "segretos" if they were not themselves highly placed in the church hierarchy which fueled a lot of myths like the assassins one. Those assassin myths were probably an echo of the very real ones used by Venitian doges to preserve their glassblowing secrets.

Things like the Da Vinci Code with the Catholic Church sending out "hit men" to preserve some secret that the Church knows but nobody else does annoy me.

If you're not talking about that, I apologize.

Dont read J. Ringo princess of Wands series then.
The Mystical SWAT teams are funny

Hey! There's a difference between the Church having "hit squads" going after Monsters and having "hit squads" going after "people who know too much".

Oh, thanks for the info about "Archivio Segreto Vaticano". That's more understandable than "secret libraries holding documents that'd destroy the Church if published".

alj_sf wrote:

DrakBibliophile wrote:Cite please.

I've heard about too many "conspiracy stories" where "secret" documents held by the Roman Catholic Church "prove" whatever the "secret history" the conspiracy buff wants us to believe.

The existence of the "Archivio Segreto Vaticano" is official, they have documents up to VIIIth century at least and there is a reserved section called Hell where non Catholic faith documents are kept. All that is acknowledged on many Vatican sites including official one.

In particular, they had previously unknown Dominicans documents about Catharism that were released for the 800th anniversay of the beginning of the Albigensian crusade in 2009. Nothing really astonishing, but it was a whole new set of archives about a troubled period where we lack many accounts.

Note that this is not under Inquisition duties, the "Archivio Congregatio pro Doctrina Fidei" were only created in XVIth century and are the archives of the tribunal that is the real role of the Inquisition.

Very few researchers had in the past access to the "segretos" if they were not themselves highly placed in the church hierarchy which fueled a lot of myths like the assassins one. Those assassin myths were probably an echo of the very real ones used by Venitian doges to preserve their glassblowing secrets.

Things like the Da Vinci Code with the Catholic Church sending out "hit men" to preserve some secret that the Church knows but nobody else does annoy me.

If you're not talking about that, I apologize.

Dont read J. Ringo princess of Wands series then.
The Mystical SWAT teams are funny

Have you read Larry Correia's Monster Hunter International books?

The latest one has Agent Franks (Frankenstein's monster, sort of) teaming up with a Catholic Church "hit squad". Much "fun" is had by all except by the Real Monsters.

alj_sf wrote:Dont read J. Ringo princess of Wands series then.
The Mystical SWAT teams are funny

hm no. But I read mostly SF, not fantasy

DrakBibliophile wrote:Have you read Larry Correia's Monster Hunter International books?

The latest one has Agent Franks (Frankenstein's monster, sort of) teaming up with a Catholic Church "hit squad". Much "fun" is had by all except by the Real Monsters.

alj_sf wrote:Dont read J. Ringo princess of Wands series then.
The Mystical SWAT teams are funny

Thanks for covering my citation, alj-sf.

And Drak, the archives aren't 'secret' so much as they are obscure. Since Vatican II the Church has been very open with older records and helpful with people doing research into older history along with the SJ's study of Aramaic and ancient Greek.

One of the other things that one of my teachers (a Christian Brother who had multiple Ph.D. in languages) said irritated him was that people would accuse the Church of hiding information when they found books by famous people (including one by Davinci) that were not translated into modern English, French, or Italian. They then accused the Church of thwarting their quest for the truth because the Church wouldn't provide (free of charge, of course!) a translator for them. How horrid that the Vatican not lend them a priest for six to eight months so they can dispute the translation currently available. In one case, they did find a translator for an Aramaic document and said they wanted to 'verify' that it was properly done. The monseignor in question got very angry - he'd done the certified translation himself.

The DaVinci stuff is kinda irritating from my point of view, as well. Nice fantasy, but the author reached a very, very long way on some of his stuff. I have an easier time with some of the MWW's handwavium than I did Brown's.

Again, no conspiracies; just the largest surviving library with sections dedicated to the search for Truth and others to detail where someone has been declared wrong.

Again, two more bits.
Dave

I'm glad that I was mistaken about what you meant.

As I told alj-sf, those archives make sense.

Lazalarlives wrote:Thanks for covering my citation, alj-sf.

And Drak, the archives aren't 'secret' so much as they are obscure. Since Vatican II the Church has been very open with older records and helpful with people doing research into older history along with the SJ's study of Aramaic and ancient Greek.

One of the other things that one of my teachers (a Christian Brother who had multiple Ph.D. in languages) said irritated him was that people would accuse the Church of hiding information when they found books by famous people (including one by Davinci) that were not translated into modern English, French, or Italian. They then accused the Church of thwarting their quest for the truth because the Church wouldn't provide (free of charge, of course!) a translator for them. How horrid that the Vatican not lend them a priest for six to eight months so they can dispute the translation currently available. In one case, they did find a translator for an Aramaic document and said they wanted to 'verify' that it was properly done. The monseignor in question got very angry - he'd done the certified translation himself.

The DaVinci stuff is kinda irritating from my point of view, as well. Nice fantasy, but the author reached a very, very long way on some of his stuff. I have an easier time with some of the MWW's handwavium than I did Brown's.

Again, no conspiracies; just the largest surviving library with sections dedicated to the search for Truth and others to detail where someone has been declared wrong.

Again, two more bits.
Dave

DrakBibliophile wrote:I'm glad that I was mistaken about what you meant.

As I told alj-sf, those archives make sense.

And every time someone goes ga-ga over some document from 14th century I cry a little over what was lost in Alexandria.

Lazalarlives wrote:Thanks for covering my citation, alj-sf.

And Drak, the archives aren't 'secret' so much as they are obscure. Since Vatican II the Church has been very open with older records and helpful with people doing research into older history along with the SJ's study of Aramaic and ancient Greek.

Well, there is still some parts that are not accessible but for specific very high level members of the church.
Add the lack of catalogs for whole sections and you have some serious dark spots.
So the conspiracy theorists, iow damn fools, still have a field day, despite the modern increased access to both clerics and lay scholars.

The DaVinci stuff is kinda irritating from my point of view, as well. Nice fantasy, but the author reached a very, very long way on some of his stuff. I have an easier time with some of the MWW's handwavium than I did Brown's.

Again, no conspiracies; just the largest surviving library with sections dedicated to the search for Truth and others to detail where someone has been declared wrong.

Again, two more bits.
Dave

Brown in addition to have a bad style imo is not even able to have the various parts of the puzzle fit properly.
I forced myself to finish davinci

One author was able to use properly this kind of mysteries, because he is himself a scholar, and it is Umberto Eco. "The Name of the Rose" subject is even about forbidden libraries, but not the Vatican one unfortunately. "Foucault's Pendulum" is even better.

Thank you RFC for the snippet. Seijin Khody is also called Saint Khody! How interesting.I can hardly wait to find out more.

WHat would happen if a copy of every hidden text the sistehood has was suddenly spread accross the world? Secretly added to every collection of books in the world, both privateq and public, state and church. Hidden amongst every book store and seller. SO no fuss, no muss. The books could be hidden in different covers. Every noble must have small collection of book in their house. What will the church do, kill every noble that has had a book hidden i ntheir libraries. THat could have been planted there who knows when.
At first create a children version and spread it, the church cant mess with kids tales, THen an adult one.

Merlin cant act in the temple but the zion is a possibility. If every priest has a copy, what will the inquisition do? It has obviously been planted on them.

Do we know if these book simply speak agains the main line of the church, or does it reveal the truth about safe hold? If it is the first, tehn they can claim that kody was a seigin, warrior of god, and corrupt priest brought him down, just as they are bringing down the church now.