Anticipated length of Safehold series.

BCN wrote:Quick question for RFC:

Sir,
In 2009 a post was made indicating you anticipate a minimum of nine books in this series. Is there any further clarification, (ie do you expect significantly more than nine, to stop at nine, etc)?

Respectfully,
BCN

The honest answer is that I don’t know for certain. I do know that the current game plan is to complete the present story arc (and, no, I’m not going to tell you how the current war with the Group of Four plays out in the end). Depending on what those pesky Harchongians in the Mighty Host of God and the Archangels do or do not do, and how well Brother Lynkyn’s newest brainchild and Lieutenant Zhwaigair’s spar torpedoes workout, things could wrap up in the book I’m working on right this minute. On the other hand, they might not.

Eventually, however, the Group of Four will get its just desserts. At that point, there will be a hiatus (on Safehold) before the next book, which will deal with what happens when the truth is revealed while the prospective millennial return of the Archangels looms over everyone’s heads. Ideally, I’ll last long enough to deal with that (I’m currently estimating perhaps 3 or 4 books for that second story arc) and actually get Our Heroes back into space to deal with the Gbaba once and for all. I would be astonished if there were less than 10 or 12 novels in the series, and I promise that (assuming I don’t drop dead in mid-book) I will conclude the series in as satisfying a fashion as possible. That is, I won’t leave the readers hanging wondering what the final outcome of the human-Gbaba conflict is/will be. I turn 62 this year, so at one a year and additional 3 to 4 novels will get me close to 65 (at least!), by which time I am assuming I will have to slow down at least a little bit.

runsforcelery wrote:Lieutenant Zhwaigair’s spar torpedoes workout

Most people haven't even read THIS book and you're already giving out spoilers for the NEXT one?

runsforcelery wrote:Eventually, however, the Group of Four will get its just desserts. At that point, there will be a hiatus (on Safehold) before the next book, which will deal with what happens when the truth is revealed while the prospective millennial return of the Archangels looms over everyone’s heads. Ideally, I’ll last long enough to deal with that (I’m currently estimating perhaps 3 or 4 books for that second story arc) and actually get Our Heroes back into space to deal with the Gbaba once and for all. I would be astonished if there were less than 10 or 12 novels in the series, and I promise that (assuming I don’t drop dead in mid-book) I will conclude the series in as satisfying a fashion as possible. That is, I won’t leave the readers hanging wondering what the final outcome of the human-Gbaba conflict is/will be. I turn 62 this year, so at one a year and additional 3 to 4 novels will get me close to 65 (at least!), by which time I am assuming I will have to slow down at least a little bit.

Given that from what I understand the plot of the first five books was originally plotted for a single book I wonder how well you manage to keep things under control

Really, RFC, you need a ghost writer or other assistant

The idea of 2 books to finish this period, then a hiatus to go to another period for main sequence, feels ...right !
What also would feel right is after finishing the first 9 books for the first period, opening Safehold before and during the first period to other writers as in the Honorverse or Eric Flint's 1632 series, so that it gets even more depth, fun ... and frequency of publishings !
Thank you again RFC for LAMA and for all

Braudel26 wrote:The idea of 2 books to finish this period, then a hiatus to go to another period for main sequence, feels ...right !
What also would feel right is after finishing the first 9 books for the first period, opening Safehold before and during the first period to other writers as in the Honorverse or Eric Flint's 1632 series, so that it gets even more depth, fun ... and frequency of publishings !
Thank you again RFC for LAMA and for all

I'm not RFC of course, but since he actually had to push back the release date for "Shadow of Freedom" because he and Eric Flint hadn't worked out the complete plot of "Cauldron of Ghosts" yet, so RFC wasn't sure if it would affect SoF in a way which would change which book should be published first, I'm not wild about the idea of adding other authors for books that might impact the main storyline of Safehold. (RFC, correct me if I'm wrong about SoF and CoG, but I think I'm correctly paraphrasing what you told us about your writing schedule, but I'm not trying to put words in your mouth.)

I really do like the side series that don't impact the main storyline of the Honorverse - the anthology books, the treecat novels targeted at teens, and Timothy Zahn's novels that he's writing about the early years of the Manticore system and the RMN. Unlike the collaborative books with Eric Flint, they have no effect at all on the publishing dates, details, or plot of the main storyline. (Although I'm glad that Honor is still alive, which is somewhat Eric's fault - and ours as fans, since we'd have thrown a tizzy fit!)

Imagine if the next Safehold book was delayed because another author hadn't finished his novel on Aivah's network of spies in Zion! (RFC, do I get a cut for coming up with the idea if you think that's a great idea for a novel and have another author write it?)

I'd enjoy books by other authors that fleshed out the War of the Fallen, Operation Ark, the building of the Temple, and the war with the Gbaba, including what happened to Earth. Some of those could be written without affecting the main storyline now, others would have to wait. (Provided they concurred with the main storyline, which the main storyline doesn't manage to do on occasion!) The year in which Merlin woke up in OAR is a good example, since RFC thought one way and the editor another, and they didn't get it hashed out properly until after the book had already been published.

McGuiness wrote:...I'm not wild about the idea of adding other authors for books that might impact the main storyline of Safehold. ...

I really do like the side series that don't impact the main storyline of the Honorverse - the anthology books, the treecat novels targeted at teens, and Timothy Zahn's novels that he's writing about the early years of the Manticore system and the RMN. Unlike the collaborative books with Eric Flint, they have no effect at all on the publishing dates, details, or plot of the main storyline...

In fact, we agree. The part of your post I quote above is exactly what I thought about when I said after finishing the current (first) period, it would be good for RFC to open to other writers (not collaboration) for books before or during this first period, leaving RFC to manage/write about the new (second) period (probably from what he wrote just before the supposed return of the millenium )

runsforcelery wrote:The honest answer is that I don’t know for certain. I do know that the current game plan is to complete the present story arc (and, no, I’m not going to tell you how the current war with the Group of Four plays out in the end). Depending on what those pesky Harchongians in the Mighty Host of God and the Archangels do or do not do, and how well Brother Lynkyn’s newest brainchild and Lieutenant Zhwaigair’s spar torpedoes workout, things could wrap up in the book I’m working on right this minute. On the other hand, they might not.

Ok, I'll bite, although after your careful... misdirections in the past, I'm not sure how much I dare believe any "hints" you're kind enough to give us! When you start being helpful, I've learned to realize you're being sneaky - or diverting our focus just enough so that when you toss in a PICA named Nimue after assuring us that making PICAs is impossible without destroying Merlin, and that you'd "never create a VP and call it Nimue, because having a character named Nimue would be too confusing to your readers," you aren't lying because OWL figured out how to make a PICA all by himself, and calling the new PICA Nimue and giving it her original personality isn't at all the same as having a character who's a VP based on the Merlin of three years ago! Even though there wouldn't be much difference at all in a conversation with that character over the com! (In other words, "Oops, they're getting too close for comfort!")

runsforcelery wrote:Eventually, however, the Group of Four will get its just desserts. At that point, there will be a hiatus (on Safehold) before the next book, which will deal with what happens when the truth is revealed while the prospective millennial return of the Archangels looms over everyone’s heads.

Golly, did RFC just inadvertently reveal that you can invade Zion, take over the Temple, hang or rather creatively execute some vicars who very richly deserve it, and not set off the Rakurai so badly that it destroys the EoC?

Also that there will be a wait of several years before the Archangels return, but the Truth will be proclaimed to everyone before the Archangels show up, however they manage it?

I'd imagine being told that the CoGA and the CoC are complete frauds could shake up even the EoC and Siddarmark with their Reformist teachings, since this goes beyond reformation, the CoC, and straight to apostasy, and I just don't see how Safehold (and even most citizens of the EoC) could accept it. I imagine most people will actually look forward to the return of the Archangels, and there might be some rather nasty wars to cleanse the world in preparation for their return.

If that's how it works out, let's hope the Hamilcar was hijacked by some Shan-Wei supporters who show up declaring that Langhorne was a fraud, because I don't see any other way that a reasonable amount of the population will accept the truth. Granted fewer and fewer will bend the knee to the CoGA (and those high tithes!) if it were potentially a fraud, but it's going to be a long and very violent transition, which Merlin expected all along. It's hard to progress into space even with the Rakurai removed if you've got a bunch of Luddites in your planetary population who believe it's their duty to God to kill everyone who doesn't believe the same way they do...

So I'm really looking forward to seeing how RFC breaks the chains of the CoGA and reveals it as a fraud in a way that the average Safeholdian in the street can accept. I don't see how people can accept the truth without a major demonstration - maybe Merlin will find a use for the assault shuttle and all those rounds of ammo...

runsforcelery wrote:Hopefully, I’ll last long enough to deal with that (I’m currently estimating perhaps 3 or 4 books for that second story arc) and actually get Our Heroes back into space to deal with the Gbaba once and for all. I would be astonished if there were less than 10 or 12 novels in the series, and I promise that (assuming I don’t drop dead in mid-book) I will conclude the series in as satisfying a fashion as possible. That is, I won’t leave the readers hanging wondering what the final outcome of the human-Gbaba conflict is/will be. I turn 62 this year, so at one a year and additional 3 to 4 novels will get me close to 65 (at least!), by which time I am assuming I will have to slow down at least a little bit.

I'm well over a decade younger than you, but I remember Robert Jordan's demise all too well, and I worry that I might not be around when the final book is released. So although we wait as fast as we can, and realize that you have a life outside of writing novels all day (and chuckling over our speculations regarding the plot of your upcoming novels) some of us won't be around to see the finish line. We dearly hope that one of those people isn't you!

Well the best of health to you RFC and to your wife, and for myself, I await anxiously for the next few books I want to know what is going to happen.

Right now i'm waiting for 3 books with all the patience I can muster, the first one is the next Saganami book, I want to continue seeing the Story of Abigail Terekhov and Michelle, the second book is safehold 8 I really want the COGA to get their posterior kicked into Old Earth, and the third is the first book of the Magnum Opus (Bahzell pentalogy).

Any news RFC when those books will be available for your rabid fans?

Braudel26 wrote:

McGuiness wrote:...I'm not wild about the idea of adding other authors for books that might impact the main storyline of Safehold. ...

I really do like the side series that don't impact the main storyline of the Honorverse - the anthology books, the treecat novels targeted at teens, and Timothy Zahn's novels that he's writing about the early years of the Manticore system and the RMN. Unlike the collaborative books with Eric Flint, they have no effect at all on the publishing dates, details, or plot of the main storyline...

In fact, we agree. The part of your post I quote above is exactly what I thought about when I said after finishing the current (first) period, it would be good for RFC to open to other writers (not collaboration) for books before or during this first period, leaving RFC to manage/write about the new (second) period (probably from what he wrote just before the supposed return of the millennium )

We certainly agree on books that wouldn't affect future novels in the main storyline - perhaps a book about the battle for Earth in the war with the Gbaba to tell us a lot more about what the TF was like, and the horrors of the war with an intelligent species whose only purpose seems to be your complete destruction. Of course RFC already wrote a series with such a species as the villains - the last two books of the Starfire series, "In Death Ground" and "The Shiva Option." Those were the first two of RFC's books that I read, and I absolutely love them!

There's lots of books that could be written from different nation's points of view, or from the point of view of different layers of society. An orphan in Tellesberg, a Desnairan nobleman, a dynastic church family in the temple lands, or serfs in Harchong. Going back into the past may be difficult, since you can't write about the War of the Fallen when we don't know who the good guys and bad guys really were at this point. Same with Operation Ark - of the survivors, who were the villains and who tried to preserve Shan-Wei's vision and the operation's original intent.

The problem with such novels is the time RFC would have to spend bringing every author the background information and a plot (or the info if they had a plot he liked.) None of us are immortal, and the shock when Asimov and Heinlein died was tough. Knowing you'll never read another new book by one of your favorite authors isn't easy to accept. I'm not sure how much time RFC spent with the authors of the short stories in the anthologies, or with Timothy Zahn, but it had to have been substantial - and I like the direction Timothy Zahn is going, and we'll get a look at Manticore that we'd otherwise only see in short infodumps.

So yeah, Safehold is big enough for some books that fill in some blanks and written by other authors. I just hope any such books don't take up too much of RFC's limited time.

Now that I've voiced such worries, he'll probably live to be 100, still be writing the day he dies, and outlive me by decades! (And be a first generation prolong recipient!)

runsforcelery wrote:Eventually, however, the Group of Four will get its just desserts. At that point, there will be a hiatus (on Safehold) before the next book, which will deal with what happens when the truth is revealed while the prospective millennial return of the Archangels looms over everyone’s heads. Ideally, I’ll last long enough to deal with that (I’m currently estimating perhaps 3 or 4 books for that second story arc) and actually get Our Heroes back into space to deal with the Gbaba once and for all. I would be astonished if there were less than 10 or 12 novels in the series, and I promise that (assuming I don’t drop dead in mid-book) I will conclude the series in as satisfying a fashion as possible. That is, I won’t leave the readers hanging wondering what the final outcome of the human-Gbaba conflict is/will be. I turn 62 this year, so at one a year and additional 3 to 4 novels will get me close to 65 (at least!), by which time I am assuming I will have to slow down at least a little bit.

Bolding mine.
Based on previous experience with the Honorverse, I think this means that the "return to space" part will be at least 6 books since Weber tends to expand his universes far more than he intends to.
But at least we know how it (probably) won't end.

McGuiness wrote:Golly, did RFC just inadvertently reveal that you can invade Zion, take over the Temple, hang or rather creatively execute some vicars who very richly deserve it, and not set off the Rakurai so badly that it destroys the EoC?

Also that there will be a wait of several years before the Archangels return, but the Truth will be proclaimed to everyone before the Archangels show up, however they manage it?

I'd imagine being told that the CoGA and the CoC are complete frauds could shake up even the EoC and Siddarmark with their Reformist teachings, since this goes beyond reformation, the CoC, and straight to apostasy, and I just don't see how Safehold (and even most citizens of the EoC) could accept it. I imagine most people will actually look forward to the return of the Archangels, and there might be some rather nasty wars to cleanse the world in preparation for their return.

If that's how it works out, let's hope the Hamilcar was hijacked by some Shan-Wei supporters who show up declaring that Langhorne was a fraud, because I don't see any other way that a reasonable amount of the population will accept the truth. Granted fewer and fewer will bend the knee to the CoGA (and those high tithes!) if it were potentially a fraud, but it's going to be a long and very violent transition, which Merlin expected all along. It's hard to progress into space even with the Rakurai removed if you've got a bunch of Luddites in your planetary population who believe it's their duty to God to kill everyone who doesn't believe the same way they do...

So I'm really looking forward to seeing how RFC breaks the chains of the CoGA and reveals it as a fraud in a way that the average Safeholdian in the street can accept. I don't see how people can accept the truth without a major demonstration - maybe Merlin will find a use for the assault shuttle and all those rounds of ammo...

Actually, I read that little evil Snerk quite a bit differently. I've never seen the EoC marching into Zion and laying siege to the Temple... rather putting on enough military and *especially* economic pressure that the Go4 falls and the new leadership offers a truce. The Snerk seems to imply what has already been implied in the text of LaMA: arming the Harchongese peasantry with effective weapons and training becomes a two-edged sword. If Reformism sweeps Harchong at rile point behind a determined mutinous army of serfs, then it's all over for the AoG, and thus all over for the Go4.

I see the new leadership offering to call off the Jihad and recognize the non-heretical nature of the Church of Charis, leading to a period of retrenchment and stability. That sounds like the interim period RFC is referring to. It'll take several years to repair all the damage this war is causing and proliferate many of the new innovations among those that will accept them.

As you note, I do see the ultimate truth as a trickier issue to pull off. The safe route would be to wait for a few generations and let the ideas of innovation founded in the current schismatic war to really take hold, but that would make for one borrrrring series.

I still think the key to that is finding out that there's an AI matrix in the Stone of Schuler that's a recording of Schuler himself, and that he was a reformist who had the Book of Schuler hung on him out of convenience and spite. That would set up a second Angelic War when the Archangels 'come back' (AI matrixes wake up in the Temple, housed in the Hamilcar's computer core).

Unless the goodies in Nimue's cave is just a giant red herring that never gets used, then a scenario like this is the only way I can think of where they WOULD get used. Orthodox AI (Chihiro?) in the Temple wake up and open the Secret Temple Armory, and Nimue deploys the weapons from the Bat Cave. I'd also wager that the friendly AI (be it Schuler or someone else) disables the orbital system early on in the plot.

Having one or more original Archangels come right out and tell the populace that the CoGA is a lie is about the only way I can think of to realistically get a good chunk of the safehold population on board with the idea. And even then there's going to be a significant percentage that will NEVER believe it.

Here's to RFC and Sharon's health and long life! Or, at least until we have the tech to make a VR recording of him. Imagine if he could live in accelerated time...