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How Firm a Foundation (hymn) <== Is there a link?

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Re: How Firm a Foundation (hymn) <== Is there a link?
Post by RHWoodman   » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:41 am

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Ensign Re-read wrote:
RHWoodman wrote:--CLIP--

--MORE CLIP--

By Schism Rent Asunder comes from the hymn The Church's One Foundation and refers to the rending of Safehold by the schism of the Church of Charis from the Church of God Awaiting.

By Heresies Distressed also comes from The Church's One Foundation. (In fact, both titles come from the same line in the hymn:

Though with a scornful wonder
Men see her sore oppressed,
By schisms rent asunder,
By heresies distressed,

Yet saints their watch are keeping;
Their cry goes up, "How long?"
And soon the night of weeping
Shall be the morn of song.

--CLIP--

RH Woodman


Hmmm...

I agree re OAR.

I have not noticed the Hymn that you refer to re BSRA and BHD.
I _ASSUME_ that it's in the book(s), and not in the "real world".

Am I right about that?
If yes, can you cite where it's in the book(s)?


The hymn The Church's One Foundation is not in the book. The hymn is in the real world. The title refers to the Christian belief that the Christian Church is founded solely and exclusively by Jesus Christ and that His Church will endure no matter how many schisms, splits, heresies, wars, controversies, et cetera batter her. (The Christian Church is referred to by the feminine pronoun because of the Christian belief that the Church is "the bride of Christ".)

I believe that DW chose those titles (BSRA and BHD) as an oblique reference to the persistent endurance of Truth as well as a more direct reference to the schism of the Church of Charis from the Church of God Awaiting and the war that followed that schism.
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Re: How Firm a Foundation (hymn) <== Is there a link?
Post by kbus888   » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:30 am

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Hi Guys !!

I love reading these posts and finding out the subtleties hidden in <DW> stories.

Thanks to all for sharing your research.

R
.
..//* *\\
(/(..^..)\)
.._/'*'\_
.(,,,)^(,,,)

Love is a condition in which
the happiness of another
is essential to your own. - R Heinlein
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Re: How Firm a Foundation (hymn) <== Is there a link?
Post by RHWoodman   » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:03 pm

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kbus888 wrote:Hi Guys !!

I love reading these posts and finding out the subtleties hidden in <DW> stories.

Thanks to all for sharing your research.

R
.


Actually, I enjoy DW's choice of lines from hymns for titles. I serve (in a volunteer capacity) in a small church as the Music Director, and so I find myself often immersed in the study of hymns for various reasons. DW's creativity never ceases to amaze me.
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Re: How Firm a Foundation (hymn) <== Is there a link?
Post by Ensign Re-read   » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:22 pm

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RHWoodman:

Thank you for your research, and pointing out the sometimes-not-so-obvious.
.
=====
The Celestia "addon" for the Planet Safehold and the Kau-zhi star system, are now available at: http://www.lepp.cornell.edu/~seb/celestia/weber/.
=====
http://www.flickr.com/photos/68506297@N ... 740128635/
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Re: How Firm a Foundation (hymn) <== Is there a link?
Post by RHWoodman   » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:24 pm

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Ensign Re-read wrote:RHWoodman:

Thank you for your research, and pointing out the sometimes-not-so-obvious.
.


You're welcome, but it was my pleasure.
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Re: How Firm a Foundation (hymn) <== Is there a link?
Post by lyonheart   » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:35 pm

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Hi guys,

I believe this data has also been covered previously by RFC, Drak, and Duckk.

L


RHWoodman wrote:
Ensign Re-read wrote:RHWoodman:

Thank you for your research, and pointing out the sometimes-not-so-obvious.
.


You're welcome, but it was my pleasure.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: How Firm a Foundation (hymn) <== Is there a link?
Post by RHWoodman   » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:55 am

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lyonheart wrote:Hi guys,

I believe this data has also been covered previously by RFC, Drak, and Duckk.

L




Hi, Lyonheart,

I rather quickly searched through all of the titles of all of the topics under Safehold, and I saw nothing that stood out as obviously relating to this thread. I'm not saying it wasn't there, just that in my perusal of titles, nothing jumped out at me.

I also tried searching for the word "hymn", and the search function crashed and cut off my access to this site, so that I had to reload the page. If you have any links to where this has been covered previously, I'd be interested in reading them.

Thanks,

Robert
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Re: How Firm a Foundation (hymn) <== Is there a link?
Post by DrakBibliophile   » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:45 pm

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Without snerking, I think the "link" is simple.

When a storm hits a house/building, you need to be concerned about "how firm/strong the foundation is".

It's safe to say that there is a big "storm" going to hit Charis. (Just reading the blurb will tell us that).



Ensign Re-read wrote:I saw the following in Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Firm_a_Foundation_%28hymn%29 wrote:

How Firm a Foundation (hymn)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

* Not to be confused with How Firm a Foundation (novel), of David Weber's Safehold series.

How Firm a Foundation is a Christian hymn, written by John Rippon in 1787. The tune was composed by Joseph Funk in 1832. The hymn was played at the funerals of several politicians from the United States. It was also the favorite hymn of General Robert E. Lee. On Christmas Eve of 1898, American units involved in the Spanish American War joined together to sing the hymn. The units were from the North and the South.
edit External links

* http://hymntime.com/tch/htm/h/o/w/howfirm.htm
* http://www.tanbible.com/tol_sng/howfirmafoundation.htm


I am aware that DW has said that he is a "Methodist lay preacher". (BTW, could a "Deacon" be another name for a "lay preacher"?) I'm confident that such a background HAS given him a lot of fodder for various works/ideas of his.

What I wonder is if this background/exposure is also responsible for the name of this book?

Or, to be right to the point:
Is the Hymn somehow related to the theme(s) in the book?

.
*
Paul Howard (Alias Drak Bibliophile)
*
Sometimes The Dragon Wins! [Polite Dragon Smile]
*
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Re: How Firm a Foundation (hymn) <== Is there a link?
Post by RandomThoughts   » Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:47 pm

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DrakBibliophile wrote:Without snerking, I think the "link" is simple.

When a storm hits a house/building, you need to be concerned about "how firm/strong the foundation is".

It's safe to say that there is a big "storm" going to hit Charis. (Just reading the blurb will tell us that).


That seems like a reasonable explanation but it occurred to me that perhaps DW was being just a bit ambiguous here. The question may well be asked of both sides in this conflict.

RT
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Re: How Firm a Foundation (hymn) <== Is there a link?
Post by McGuiness   » Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:21 am

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RandomThoughts wrote:
DrakBibliophile wrote:
Without snerking, I think the "link" is simple.

When a storm hits a house/building, you need to be concerned about "how firm/strong the foundation is".

It's safe to say that there is a big "storm" going to hit Charis. (Just reading the blurb will tell us that).

That seems like a reasonable explanation but it occurred to me that perhaps DW was being just a bit ambiguous here. The question may well be asked of both sides in this conflict.

RT

I automatically assumed the title referred to the strength of the CoGA, since it's based on a lie so by definition has a weak foundation. It's just that 99.99% of the population of Safehold doesn't know that - yet.

I've always thought that in this book Charis is finally in a position to go on the offensive in the enemy's home ports - after all, the best defense is a good offense. So looking at the big picture, if anybody has a storm coming at them I'd have thought it was the CoGA. A few individuals may face minor inconveniences like assassination attempts of course.

And if Siddarmark is splintering loose, the foundation of Mother Church is developing serious cracks.

"Oh, bother," said Pooh, "I wish my vocabulary wasn't so limited..."
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