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How Charis 'MIGHT' react to the Testament of Scheuler.

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How Charis 'MIGHT' react to the Testament of Scheuler.
Post by Erls   » Sat May 08, 2021 11:14 pm

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For the sake of this post, I am assuming that the ending scene of TFT was actually a computerized program created by Scheuler, and the testament is truly his. Furthermore, I am assuming that his testament states that Chihiro (and Langhorne, to an extent) lied about the purpose of Safehold. To what end, he probably won't say.

Anyway, with that intro...

Cayleb's Letter to the Citizens of Charis:

"To all Charisians, from whatever lands you may come, this letter is the explanation as to why we fought the Holy Jihad and to why we believe the Testament of Scheuler.

My name is Cayleb Ahrmark, and I know from which Adam and Eve I descend. Their were names Kayleb and Jennifer Sarmac, and they resided in Tellesberg at the time of the destruction of Alexandria. I know this because my family had preserved, at great risk to themselves, books and god-images that pre-date the founding of Safehold. If the Inquisition ever had learned my family had this information, I would never have been born.

This knowledge, passed down through generations, included images of the archangels - all of them, including the fallen - discussing this planet. This knowledge included books and literature of immense value, discussing the importance of freedom. As an aside, these books are why my grandfathers and his forebears sought to free any serfs and unleash the prosperity of the People of Charis.

This knowledge my family passed down to me is why I, with the support of the Archbishop who - as my confessor - knew and had seen and read everything I had, decided to stand my ground. "Here I stand, for I can be no other." What I didn't know at that time, but do know, is the Archbishop Wylsyn had identical recordings of the Archangels that confirmed what my family had known throughout history.

There is a reason that Archbishop Wylsyn had most of his relatives murdered by Clyntahn. There is a reason why his ancestory, as Grand Vicar, died a mysterious death. That is because the Wylsyn family truly is descended directly from the Archangel Scheuler - and they have holy artifacts to prove this. I have seen the truth-stone, that holy relict long thought lost, as Archbishop Wylsen brought it with him to Charis and examined not only myself, but my father and my especial servant Merlin with it. But Scheuler gifted his true children with more than just the truth-stone, he also gifted them with talking pictures OF THE SAME SORT that my ancestors had preserved for me. And in these talking images, I saw the same Archangels I had previously seen in different discussions - more sinister discussions.

For Scheuler had foreseen how the war would end. And, at great risk to himself, he "joined" the forces of Chihiro while conspiring against them. And, eventually, Scheuler was found out. When Seijin Khody approached him with his view that they were fighting for the wrong side, Scheuler finally approached Chihiro. Both Scheuler and Seijin Khody died, and the book of Scheuler was changed after his death to include the punishment of Scheuler. I know this, because I have seen the original version of the Holy Writ - before Chihiro corrupted it.

This is why I fought the Jihad. And this is why Archbishop Staynair and Bishop Wylsyn fully support the Jihad. And, this secret, which I have shared with my beloved wife, family, and others, is why Charis is pushing forward.

I ask that, for anyone questioning the Testament of Scheuler, that you re-read it in light of my disclosure. Contemplate on it, speak to your local priest about the religious ramifications of if. Pray upon it. Above all, what I ask is that you, as a free citizen of Charis, do what you think is right.

The founding creed of my house, left unsaid until today, is the following: We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by the Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

May God be with you. Emperor Cayleb Ahrmark (Sarmac)."
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Re: How Charis 'MIGHT' react to the Testament of Scheuler.
Post by Dilandu   » Sun May 09, 2021 1:58 pm

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Are you suggesting putting even MORE chaos into the already chaotic situation? This text for the righteous Charisians would basically be a declaration that Clyntahn was RIGHT, and Cayleb & Co really sold their souls to Shain-Wei! Charis would collapse in total chaos immediately, and the royal family would most likely be killed very fast.

The only practical thing for Cayleb & Co to do, is to act as shocked and dumbfounded by the "revelation" as everyone else, and just HINT that "actually, it may explain a lot..."
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: How Charis 'MIGHT' react to the Testament of Scheuler.
Post by ecortez   » Thu May 13, 2021 2:45 pm

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Dilandu wrote:Are you suggesting putting even MORE chaos into the already chaotic situation? This text for the righteous Charisians would basically be a declaration that Clyntahn was RIGHT, and Cayleb & Co really sold their souls to Shain-Wei! Charis would collapse in total chaos immediately, and the royal family would most likely be killed very fast.

The only practical thing for Cayleb & Co to do, is to act as shocked and dumbfounded by the "revelation" as everyone else, and just HINT that "actually, it may explain a lot..."



Exactly. The smartest thing for the IC to do is to release bits and pieces of the truth, seemingly coming from other sources (i.e. anyone but them) and allow reformers and free thinkers all across Safehold to draw the right conclusions. It's vital that none of the new revelations which will shake the universal faith of all Safeholdians be seen as originating in Charis.

They will eventually have to take a position of course. But being viewed as the puppetmasters behind it all would only reinforce Clyntahn's narrative and undermine everything they're trying to achieve.
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Re: How Charis 'MIGHT' react to the Testament of Scheuler.
Post by Dilandu   » Fri May 14, 2021 1:34 am

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ecortez wrote:Exactly. The smartest thing for the IC to do is to release bits and pieces of the truth, seemingly coming from other sources (i.e. anyone but them) and allow reformers and free thinkers all across Safehold to draw the right conclusions. It's vital that none of the new revelations which will shake the universal faith of all Safeholdians be seen as originating in Charis.

They will eventually have to take a position of course. But being viewed as the puppetmasters behind it all would only reinforce Clyntahn's narrative and undermine everything they're trying to achieve.


Yep. It may be even rational for Charis to play a bit of orthodox and demand formal Inquisition investigation of the "preposterous and dangerous rumors originated from Zion". Considering Charis... uneasy relatiohships with Inquisition, it would throw off-track any attempts to blame Charis for the whole thing.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: How Charis 'MIGHT' react to the Testament of Scheuler.
Post by Morden   » Fri May 14, 2021 1:28 pm

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I don't think they will do anything like that tbh, mainly because if they allow nature to take its course. Then what began with the war with the group of four will be concluded. As more and more death and destruction befall the world, more and more people will become skeptical, and more will wonder whether the testament is real when no Archangels come to set Safehold back on course.

Only then would it be safe to release the truth and tbh even then I suspect there would still be die-hard fanatics who refuse to believe the truth.

simply telling people won't have the desired effect, they will feel like they're being tricked, or that Charis has an ulterior motive. Most won't be willing to listen, not until they feel it in their very bones. When they realize that the price the Church of God Awaiting demands is simply too high a price for any of them to pay.
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Re: How Charis 'MIGHT' react to the Testament of Scheuler.
Post by Julia Minor   » Sun May 16, 2021 9:57 am

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Dilandu wrote:Are you suggesting putting even MORE chaos into the already chaotic situation? This text for the righteous Charisians would basically be a declaration that Clyntahn was RIGHT, and Cayleb & Co really sold their souls to Shain-Wei! Charis would collapse in total chaos immediately, and the royal family would most likely be killed very fast.

The only practical thing for Cayleb & Co to do, is to act as shocked and dumbfounded by the "revelation" as everyone else, and just HINT that "actually, it may explain a lot..."


If Cayleb and Sharleyan have the collective IQ of a philodendron, they'll keep their mouths shut and let any official reaction to the strange stories coming out of the Temple Lands come from Archbishop Maikel.

And if Maikel's IQ > philodendron, he can't say much if anything while the reports are at the "strange story" level. Now, if Tymythy Rhobair decides to call a whole-Church convocation to examine the Testament and the reports of Schueler's appearance, and if he extends an invitation to the Church of Charis to take part (NOT guaranteed), maybe Maikel or whoever goes as his representative could sneak a few comments in.
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Re: How Charis 'MIGHT' react to the Testament of Scheuler.
Post by PeterZ   » Sun May 16, 2021 2:24 pm

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The CoC's position has to be simple and direct. The Visitation is either Schuler or a demonically inspired fake. If demons faked it, why has Chihiro to not countered this fake with angelic action? If Schuler was indeed the source, then the Writ is NOT inerrant. It is in error because either Schuler lied or Chihiro did. Both cannot be telling the truth.

I suppose one can argue that Schuler had fallen and visited Safe hold in his fallen state. In that case he becomes a demon and the angels would have responded to his visitation. They did not, hence Schuler did not fall from God's grace.

So the CoC has to argue for individual responsibility over what parts of the Writ is part of God's plan and what is a lie. The Writ has proven unreliable.
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Re: How Charis 'MIGHT' react to the Testament of Scheuler.
Post by jtg452   » Mon May 17, 2021 11:00 am

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I guess I'm the only one that got the feeling that the whole 'visitation' was something that was put together by Merlin, Owl and the rest as the next phase in undermining the Church.

They got the moderates in control in Zion and the Inquisition has been gutted and lamed.

Time to start casting more doubt on the direction the Church has been going for the last few centuries.

What would be a better way to do so than have a founding 'saint' appear?
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Re: How Charis 'MIGHT' react to the Testament of Scheuler.
Post by Jeslis   » Mon May 17, 2021 4:22 pm

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Weber effectively confirms that it was Narhaman(sp?) in a youtube interview series: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10796
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Re: How Charis 'MIGHT' react to the Testament of Scheuler.
Post by Erls   » Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:55 am

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To be clear - I never said WHEN Cayleb would release this letter. I should have been clearer.

I meant this more as, what will Charis do once the Testament of Scheuler has been spread around Safehold for a year and is highly disputed - believed by many and disbelieved by many. When 2/3rds of Charis (or more) believe the Testament - due to Staynair. When half or more of the UP - and perhaps even the Temple Lands, believe the same.
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