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Not that he ever WOULD have... But he COULD have...

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Not that he ever WOULD have... But he COULD have...
Post by WeberFan   » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:20 am

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Rereading OAR...

I guess when the Dohlar fleet and the Tarot joined together and started their voyage toward Charis, Merlin COULD have had Owl direct some of the incendiary nanobots to the powder storage compartments of every one of the galleys and accompanying support ships. Then, at the appropriate moment when they're passing Armageddon Reef...

Kaboom.

Invading fleet destroyed.

No inconvenient survivors.

No need for the Charisian galleons to head south. They're available to repulse the other fleet (Corisande, Emerald, Chisholm) with far fewer casualties. Perhaps Haarald lives?

As a tactical officer, Merlin SHOULD have thought of that immediately ("If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin").

But then I guess the whole plot would be a lot shorter! :lol: :roll:

Just stirring the pot..
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Re: Not that he ever WOULD have... But he COULD have...
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:17 pm

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Also, RFC required Thirsk to survive - 1) to provide some actual opposition to Charis, and 2) to provide leadership to Dohlar when it finally splits from the jihad.

In addition, that would have occurred before Haarald and Kaleb have been read into the program, so explaining why the fleet didn't have to sail would have been a tad touchy - as in "OMG - you are one of Shan-Wei's minions - begone"
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The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Not that he ever WOULD have... But he COULD have...
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:07 am

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He didn't want to provide such aid--he knew he couldn't provide aid near the temple so he didn't want to provide it anywhere.

Furthermore, he didn't want any hint of using banned technology.
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Re: Not that he ever WOULD have... But he COULD have...
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:33 am

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Re: What if Merlin did a secret take down of combined Dohlar-Tarot fleets in _OAR_.

Loren Pechtel wrote:He didn't want to provide such aid--he knew he couldn't provide aid near the temple so he didn't want to provide it anywhere.

Furthermore, he didn't want any hint of using banned technology.


Besides, if there are any survivors (and I suspect that there could had been), the Grand Inquisitor would have declared that Shan-wei had intervened on the side of Charis (after all, this mysterious destruction would have taken place right by Armageddon Reef).
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Beowulf was bad.
(first sentence of Chapter VI of _Space Viking_ by H. Beam Piper)
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Re: Not that he ever WOULD have... But he COULD have...
Post by Dilandu   » Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:30 am

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WeberFan wrote: Merlin COULD have had Owl direct some of the incendiary nanobots to the powder storage compartments of every one of the galleys and accompanying support ships. Then, at the appropriate moment when they're passing Armageddon Reef...


Merlin could, but at this point RFC wasn't so worried about his heroes advantages being not ridiculously overwhelming enough :D

From the practical point of view, the total destruction of the whole fleet without any witnesses (especially considering Armageddon Reef) would led to not only the suspicion, but to assurance that Charis served demonic powers. And if the Holy War was bad, the sincere Holy War - where everybody on Safehold would have undeniable proof of Charisian deviltry - would be several orders of magnitude worse.
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Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Not that he ever WOULD have... But he COULD have...
Post by Dilandu   » Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:32 am

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WeberFan wrote:
As a tactical officer, Merlin SHOULD have thought of that immediately ("If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin").


This formula is not some kind of universal military solution.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Not that he ever WOULD have... But he COULD have...
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:05 pm

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Dilandu wrote:
WeberFan wrote: Merlin COULD have had Owl direct some of the incendiary nanobots to the powder storage compartments of every one of the galleys and accompanying support ships. Then, at the appropriate moment when they're passing Armageddon Reef...


Merlin could, but at this point RFC wasn't so worried about his heroes advantages being not ridiculously overwhelming enough :D

From the practical point of view, the total destruction of the whole fleet without any witnesses (especially considering Armageddon Reef) would led to not only the suspicion, but to assurance that Charis served demonic powers. And if the Holy War was bad, the sincere Holy War - where everybody on Safehold would have undeniable proof of Charisian deviltry - would be several orders of magnitude worse.

On the other hand, using some limpet mines to blow the bottom out of some of the ships (in the middle of a storm) would have reduced the odds, and not have been particulary suspicious, as a number of galleys were lost due to foundering anyway.
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The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Not that he ever WOULD have... But he COULD have...
Post by Dilandu   » Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:28 pm

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fallsfromtrees wrote:On the other hand, using some limpet mines to blow the bottom out of some of the ships (in the middle of a storm) would have reduced the odds, and not have been particulary suspicious, as a number of galleys were lost due to foundering anyway.


Probably. But again, at this time Merlin was not as attached to the Charis, knew nothing about Brethren of Saint Zherneau, and mostly considered Charis as a useful tool for his main job. I.e. at the time of AOR he considered Charis his best shot, but was perfectly willing to sacrifice Charis, if it would help his main goal (sadly, he quickly slipped into "what else could I do to help my little toys... er, friends" mode).
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Not that he ever WOULD have... But he COULD have...
Post by n7axw   » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:11 pm

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Actually, I suspect that had the entire Dohlar/Tarot fleet blown up with no survivors, it would have been attributed to a storm... But that trick would have been good for one round.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Not that he ever WOULD have... But he COULD have...
Post by Dilandu   » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:52 pm

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n7axw wrote:Actually, I suspect that had the entire Dohlar/Tarot fleet blown up with no survivors, it would have been attributed to a storm... But that trick would have been good for one round.

Don

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No, it wouldn't. The loss of the WHOLE fleet of sufficient size without any survivors could not be explained just by storm. It's far too statistically improbable.

Considering that A - the fleet was send against supposed Charisian deviations from the Church doctrine, and B - the fleet was near Armageddon Reef (the sole most accursed place on Safehold), it would basically be inevitable conclusion that "Charisians summoned demon hordes from Armageddon Reef to slain god's warriors".

And after that it would be CHARISIAN problem to explain that the mysterious disappearance of the whole fleet was not supernatural. Which would be simply impossible, and the Holy War would starts with the absolute majority of Safeholdians being sure that Charisians are true Shain-Wei believers, and must be stopped at all cost.
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Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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