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Leisure and Sports

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: Leisure and Sports
Post by Keith_w   » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:19 am

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Morden wrote:
Erls wrote:With the 'new' technology being introduced throughout Charis, I am wondering how the sporting scene has developed. In particular, I am curious about whether or not the inner circle would "push" along the invention/growth/development of sports such as skiing (downhill), cycling, and golf. Full disclosure, I enjoy all three hence by interest.

Reason why: All three of these sports are, or can be, considered "middle-class" sports. While bikes are widely used in lieu or cars, the sport is much more of a middle class endeavor. Same with downhill skiing and golfing. The equipment requires an investment, and skiing and golfing in particular take a degree of dedication and patience to become good at and really enjoy. The development of these sports would help create a true leisure/recreation economy - and all that goes with it. Charis (Duke Delthak) could introduce the concept of PTO and encourage his employees to travel and see new sights. While intra-island travel is still a bit far, with the trains it would be entirely possible for someone in Tellesburg to get to South Charis (ski resorts?) within a day and enjoy a vacation. This would spur non-religious based travel, resorts, restaurants, and the like. A growing service-based economy, in other words, that increases the quality of life. Finally, these activities would all support the spread of smaller manufacturers and small-business (independent owner) shops.

As a fun aside.. Imagine some of the ski resorts Chisholm could have? Or even the export of skiing to the United Provinces. Steam powered chairlifts are definitely within the technological capability of Safehold, and they could even do steam powered Snowcats (interesting way to introduce tracked vehicles!).

As far as cycling goes, imagine the possibility of an Empire wide Pro Tour? Le Tour de Charis, il Giro d'Emerald, La Vuelta de Corisande, or the Tour of Chisholm, The Crown could 'encourage' each arm of the services (Navy, Marines, Army, Balloon Corp) to sponsor a team composed of service members, while major manufacturers/companies also sponsor teams.

And Golf? One could probably build some pretty fantastic courses throughout the Charisian Empire. Mountain courses, ocean-front courses, etc.

Perhaps I'd just personally enjoy reading a scene where a visiting dignitary is shocked to see a bike race, or be invited to go skiing. And then the realization that the people of Charis are actually spending millions a year on leisurely pursuits and entire industries have been created around those pursuits.


I suspect that will evolve naturally in time on its own, Charis is still fairly early on in the industrial revolution. and it wasnt until it had progressed quite far in our own history that the lower and middle classes had excess revenue to spend on leisure. Once the wages for the people on the lowest end of the spectrum start to hit the right plateau then there will be enormous potential for things like you've mentioned... But I think they are still a decade or two shy of the mark.


Golf originated in 15th Century Scotland, so it's not too early to introduce it based on industrialization. Personally I am in agreement with that great USian humourist, Mark Twain, that golf is a good walk, spoiled.

And one should always be aware that golf is called golf because "oh sh*t" and "f*ck" were already taken and that golf is flog spelt backwards.
--
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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Re: Leisure and Sports
Post by isaac_newton   » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:49 am

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Castenea wrote:
Morden wrote:I suspect that will evolve naturally in time on its own, Charis is still fairly early on in the industrial revolution. and it wasnt until it had progressed quite far in our own history that the lower and middle classes had excess revenue to spend on leisure. Once the wages for the people on the lowest end of the spectrum start to hit the right plateau then there will be enormous potential for things like you've mentioned... But I think they are still a decade or two shy of the mark.

I would expect that much of that should already be happening. By the end of Trials and tribulations Bicycles had been around for at least a decade having been introduced at least two books earlier. In our time line bicycles appeared during the 1870's as pneumatic tires were developed, new processes brought the cost of tubular steel down significantly, and advances in bearings (ball bearing development?) came together to create a form of transport the well to do city dweller could afford. It did not take a decade for the first organized bicycle races to be promoted.


in Britain they certainly had races on those dreadfull penny farthing bikes - solid wheels :roll:

Actually the safety bike was a massive liberation for the working classes [both male and female] so I pretty sure that the early bike racing had a strong working class element.
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Re: Leisure and Sports
Post by DMcCunney   » Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:09 pm

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Erls wrote:With the 'new' technology being introduced throughout Charis, I am wondering how the sporting scene has developed. In particular, I am curious about whether or not the inner circle would "push" along the invention/growth/development of sports such as skiing (downhill), cycling, and golf. Full disclosure, I enjoy all three hence by interest.
Skiing already existed, but it was a rich person's sport. Charisian development of good steel at affordable prices brought cost of bindings down enough for the ICA to equip entire large units of ski troops, like the scout sniper battalions deployed in Siddarmark.

Cycling is already in wide use, but probably awaits pneumatic rubber tires and better suspension, and properly paved roads to cycle on to really take off. (I'd rather not bike on cobblestones.)

As far as sports go, Safehold already had baseball and basketball. I'm a little surprised someone hasn't reinvented soccer. It's not middle class per se, but is a sport with low entry costs. If you have a sufficiently large flat field, you can erect goal cages at each end and lay down the needed markings.

I think hunting might be another expanding sport. With good rifles no longer being things custom made by master gunsmiths and affordable only by the very rich, things like prong buck hunting might see an upswing. And Taigys Mahldyn's development of the shotgun makes things like wyvern hunting without setting traps an obvious next step.

And Safehold's generally lower temperature relative to Earth means lots of frozen water in winter. I'll be startled if things like skating don't see widespread adoption. (I suspect it already exists, but the availability of cheap steel for blades will make proper ice skates more affordable.)
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Re: Leisure and Sports
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:00 pm

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As I posted earlier, The UP covers a large area largely populated by serfs who were bound to the land. They have been set free and one believes they will revel in their freedom. Trains, planes and automobiles will find huge demand there. Well dirigibles anyway, but that doesn't fit as nicely.

The UP will travel as far as they can as often as they can. That will create an opportunity for cheap cars. They'll make their own cars as soon as they can. The automobile will be reflect their ability to travel and a sign they are no longer serfs bound to a spot of land. They are the free and sovereign citizens of the UP.
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Re: Leisure and Sports
Post by DMcCunney   » Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:46 am

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PeterZ wrote:As I posted earlier, The UP covers a large area largely populated by serfs who were bound to the land. They have been set free and one believes they will revel in their freedom. Trains, planes and automobiles will find huge demand there. Well dirigibles anyway, but that doesn't fit as nicely.
Not just serfs, though they are a major component. There are also peasants and others, like small shopkeepers.

What is happening in the UP is the creation of a genuine middle class, who will rapidly develop middle class tastes as those things become available to them. The serfs are a pool of unskilled labor who are being given actual skills that people will pay them to apply. The folks clearing the right of way over which rails will be laid are prime examples. Clearing land is something serfs and peasants know how to do, but once the land is cleared, track must be laid and maintained, which is a different skill set, and when rails are in place, someone must operate the steam automotives that will pull the trains, and maintain the automotives and the rolling stock they pull. Those are skilled trades that pay far better than being a peasant, and the folks doing them will make money they never dreamed might be possible.

The UP will travel as far as they can as often as they can. That will create an opportunity for cheap cars. They'll make their own cars as soon as they can. The automobile will be reflect their ability to travel and a sign they are no longer serfs bound to a spot of land. They are the free and sovereign citizens of the UP.

See above about a genuine middle class, but yes. And being able to travel on railroads will be possible rather before what we think of as cars have any general availability. They are a rather down the road development.
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Re: Leisure and Sports
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:20 pm

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That's my point, Dennis. Affordable steam powered cars will impact Harchong like Henry Ford's Model T did for the US. Ford's pricing strategy was to make them affordable for his workers. That same strategy would make steam cars available to most of Harchong. Add in employer backed financing plan and Harchong serfs and peasants will quench their thirst for freedom. I posit employer financing for purchasing cars as another way to keep employees from leaving. Should an employee leave for another company, the balance of his debt come due immediately. Some sharp Charisian will use the Ahrmahk plan to facilitate starting a finance company in Harchong. Steam cars, powered farm equipment, light manufacturing equipment for home based businesses.

Bottom line is that manufacturers who price their products right will realize massive demand for what would have been luxury items antebellum. Steam cars would be chief among them.
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Re: Leisure and Sports
Post by DMcCunney   » Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:09 pm

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PeterZ wrote:That's my point, Dennis. Affordable steam powered cars will impact Harchong like Henry Ford's Model T did for the US. Ford's pricing strategy was to make them affordable for his workers. That same strategy would make steam cars available to most of Harchong. Add in employer backed financing plan and Harchong serfs and peasants will quench their thirst for freedom. I posit employer financing for purchasing cars as another way to keep employees from leaving. Should an employee leave for another company, the balance of his debt come due immediately. Some sharp Charisian will use the Ahrmahk plan to facilitate starting a finance company in Harchong. Steam cars, powered farm equipment, light manufacturing equipment for home based businesses.

First we must have affordable steam powered cars. That requires a level of infrastructure that does not currently exist to make the things. It will take a few years to et it in place.

I see larger steam cars as the equivalent of mass transit buses occurring first. Private ownership comes later. And in urban areas you develop the problem of whee they are parked when not in use.

Bottom line is that manufacturers who price their products right will realize massive demand for what would have been luxury items antebellum. Steam cars would be chief among them.

Pricing products is an art form few master. If you aren't careful you et the old joke about losing money on every sale but making it up on volume.

The bare minimum you can price is is high enough to cover your marginal cost of capital. If Armakh Plan financing is available, that burden is lessened.
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