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OAR: which archangel in Lakeview when the nuke went off

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OAR: which archangel in Lakeview when the nuke went off
Post by DirtyCajun2992   » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:32 pm

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My Theory.


Chihiro. I think he played Laghorn Into ending the enclave and was doing some last minute prep for Kay Yungs retaliation... but didn’t know about the nuke.
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Re: OAR: which archangel in Lakeview when the nuke went off
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:21 am

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DirtyCajun2992 wrote:My Theory.


Chihiro. I think he played Laghorn Into ending the enclave and was doing some last minute prep for Kay Yungs retaliation... but didn’t know about the nuke.


I doubt that the "angel" in question was a member of the command crew; IMHO, he was just a minion.
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Re: OAR: which archangel in Lakeview when the nuke went off
Post by DirtyCajun2992   » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:23 am

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Robert_A_Woodward wrote:
DirtyCajun2992 wrote:My Theory.


Chihiro. I think he played Laghorn Into ending the enclave and was doing some last minute prep for Kay Yungs retaliation... but didn’t know about the nuke.


I doubt that the "angel" in question was a member of the command crew; IMHO, he was just a minion.


That was my original thought as well. But two things stick out.

1)Chichiro was a staffer to Laghorn. Which would not have made him “command crew” adjunct command crew maybe but not any “archangel” that fits with the visitation of a “lesser” angel in the beginning of OAR.

2)Chihiro was the compiler/ writer of the “holy writ” and his reactions are WAY to personal before the nuke goes off to be just some random messenger. And DW has never not had a purpose for something so very specific to be written in so early on.
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Re: OAR: which archangel in Lakeview when the nuke went off
Post by Julia Minor   » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:23 am

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The beginning of OAR implies that the same lesser angel has been in charge of checking on the Lakeview enclave for some time. It's definitely the same one in the two on-page appearances, and Timothy remembers that specific angel coming on previous occasions.

We know Chihiro was one of Langhorne's staffers pre-nuke. If that means he was listed as a lesser angel on the roster, instead of an archangel, it's possible that Chihiro was one of the angels on Visitation duty ... but would that have left him enough time for a staff job as well?
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Re: OAR: which archangel in Lakeview when the nuke went off
Post by Louis R   » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:05 pm

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I believe that Chihiro's position was Assistant Administrator - i.e. Vice President of Humanity, to convert to a terminology more familiar to most around here.

He would always - well, since Langhorne stacked it, at least - have been a member of the Council, and thus always an archangel. And, no, unless 'visitation' was an even less onerous duty for angels that it was for archbishops, a senior staff member, regardless of "rank", would _not_ have time to see to it regularly. Not to mention that it would be very, very likely that Langhorne and his cronies were the sort to see such tasks as 'beneath' them. They didn't give a damn about people in the concrete, and would think direct regular contact with them too distracting from their duty to humanity.

Julia Minor wrote:The beginning of OAR implies that the same lesser angel has been in charge of checking on the Lakeview enclave for some time. It's definitely the same one in the two on-page appearances, and Timothy remembers that specific angel coming on previous occasions.

We know Chihiro was one of Langhorne's staffers pre-nuke. If that means he was listed as a lesser angel on the roster, instead of an archangel, it's possible that Chihiro was one of the angels on Visitation duty ... but would that have left him enough time for a staff job as well?
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Re: OAR: which archangel in Lakeview when the nuke went off
Post by DirtyCajun2992   » Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:16 pm

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Louis R wrote:I believe that Chihiro's position was Assistant Administrator - i.e. Vice President of Humanity, to convert to a terminology more familiar to most around here.

He would always - well, since Langhorne stacked it, at least - have been a member of the Council, and thus always an archangel. And, no, unless 'visitation' was an even less onerous duty for angels that it was for archbishops, a senior staff member, regardless of "rank", would _not_ have time to see to it regularly. Not to mention that it would be very, very likely that Langhorne and his cronies were the sort to see such tasks as 'beneath' them. They didn't give a damn about people in the concrete, and would think direct regular contact with them too distracting from their duty to humanity.

Julia Minor wrote:The beginning of OAR implies that the same lesser angel has been in charge of checking on the Lakeview enclave for some time. It's definitely the same one in the two on-page appearances, and Timothy remembers that specific angel coming on previous occasions.

We know Chihiro was one of Langhorne's staffers pre-nuke. If that means he was listed as a lesser angel on the roster, instead of an archangel, it's possible that Chihiro was one of the angels on Visitation duty ... but would that have left him enough time for a staff job as well?


Accept that all of the named “archangels” that Langhorne trusted that did not “fall” had books of their own before the destruction of Alexandria, his death by pocket nuke, and the war against the fallen. Chihiro became an “archangel” after the fall. And did not have his own book until his rise to power.

“But the most fascinating—and infuriating—of all, in many ways, was The Book of Chihiro. The book which had been added later, after the close of the original copy of the Writ which had been stored in the computers in Nimue’s cave.”

Remember also, not all the influential command staff were given roles as “archangels” Shan wei is noted as the “brightest of laghornes ‘assistants’ “ not an archangel
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Re: OAR: which archangel in Lakeview when the nuke went off
Post by Julia Minor   » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:16 am

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DirtyCajun2992 wrote:Remember also, not all the influential command staff were given roles as “archangels” Shan wei is noted as the “brightest of laghornes ‘assistants’ “ not an archangel


I've got the Kindle version, so I can't give a page number, but the paragraphs right after your quote here refer to Shan-wei's followers (Proctor and the rest) as archangels. It would seem odd that Langhorne was so generous handing out archangelic status to the rest of the terraforming crew and not put Shan-wei on the list.

The discrepancy might be thanks to the centuries since the destruction of Alexandria and the pocket-nuke. However Shan-wei was seen on the original Day of Creation, the "modern-day" Church certainly isn't going to grant her any respect!
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Re: OAR: which archangel in Lakeview when the nuke went off
Post by DirtyCajun2992   » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:27 pm

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Julia Minor wrote:
DirtyCajun2992 wrote:Remember also, not all the influential command staff were given roles as “archangels” Shan wei is noted as the “brightest of laghornes ‘assistants’ “ not an archangel


I've got the Kindle version, so I can't give a page number, but the paragraphs right after your quote here refer to Shan-wei's followers (Proctor and the rest) as archangels. It would seem odd that Langhorne was so generous handing out archangelic status to the rest of the terraforming crew and not put Shan-wei on the list.

The discrepancy might be thanks to the centuries since the destruction of Alexandria and the pocket-nuke. However Shan-wei was seen on the original Day of Creation, the "modern-day" Church certainly isn't going to grant her any respect!

Also very possible.
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Re: OAR: which archangel in Lakeview when the nuke went off
Post by DMcCunney   » Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:57 pm

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Louis R wrote:I believe that Chihiro's position was Assistant Administrator - i.e. Vice President of Humanity, to convert to a terminology more familiar to most around here.

Chihiro has been one of the planners for Operation Ark back on Earth, and he and Schueler had worked together on the planning. RFC mentioned at a con that Chihiro had been a high government official and a historian back on Earth. My suspicion is that he leaned on his government position to get himself posted to Operation Ark.

Chihiro had originally been Langhorne's Chief of Staff during the 40 year period it took the prepare Safehold for colonization. He was promoted to Assistant Administrator by Langhorne in a general reorganization when the terraforming effort had proceeded far enough to to awaken the colonists from cryonic suspension and place them in the original enclaves as Adams and Eves.

It's been made fairly clear elsewhere that Chihiro was working to supplant Langhorne as leader of the Safehold colony. Kau Yung's nuking of Langhorne's HQ, killing Langhorne and Bedard as well as himself and his companion was a wonderful opportunity for Chihiro. As formally designated Assistant Administrator, he was the obvious one to bump up to the top spot when Langhorne died.

This is a partial explanation for Schueler's actions. His brief seems to have been justice, and his desire would be an orderly legal succession. He supported Chihiro because he was Langhorne's formally designated number two.
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