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Langhorne set up by Chihiro?

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Langhorne set up by Chihiro?
Post by SilverbladeTE   » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:55 pm

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From topic that's come up in several threads, it seems possible Chihiro was behind much or even ALL the violence, Kinetic strike on Alexandria, maybe even letting Kau-Yung nuke the other leaders


From HELL' FOUNDATIONS QUIVER

Khody had come to question whether or not Langhorne himself had loosed the Rakurai on Armageddon Reef



According to the Spanish portion, however, Kohdy had started to suspect that Chihiro and his closest supporters had retained Hamilcar—although Kohdy didn’t know what Hamilcar truly was; he refers to it throughout as ‘the Dawn Star’—out of his own ambition to replace and supplant Langhorne completely.”


This flows into a lot of things and suggests Chihiro was a devious evil murderous schemer who could plan way ahead.

Could a Chihiro virtual personality return?

Will the Sisters of St Kody end up in conflict with a similar secretive Chihiro force?
some of the deaths in Through Fiery Trials seem damn "convenient" and unexpected.

Hm...
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Re: Langhorne set up by Chihiro?
Post by ssl4000g   » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:34 pm

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SilverbladeTE wrote:
Could a Chihiro virtual personality return?

Will the Sisters of St Kody end up in conflict with a similar secretive Chihiro force?
some of the deaths in Through Fiery Trials seem damn "convenient" and unexpected.

Hm...


Will the Testimony of Schueler discuss this? That is an interesting possibility.

Who died first, Chihiro or Schueler?

One other crazy thought; We've seen, and tried to figure out by whom, Schueler's visit at his church. Be crazy if the IC did the Schueler visit and we see the same thing, but not by the IC, of Chihiro.

I would also wonder why we didn't see any evidence of another secretive group beyond the SSK in the story. Something should have left us wondering after this long.

W
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Re: Langhorne set up by Chihiro?
Post by Joat42   » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:59 am

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I don't believe Chihiro was in cahoots with Kau-Yung or any of the other 'moderates' that was in agreement with Shan-Wei. Chihiro probably just went nuts after Kau-Yung blew up Langhorne and co.

It's possible Chihiro knew of Pei's real allegiance and used it to size power, but that seems a bit too Machiavellian since he had to predict accurately how Pei would react to the destruction of Shan-Wei's enclave.

In any way, it's most likely that Chihiro grabbed power after the bombing of Langhorne and went even further than what Langhorne had planned. The message from Schueler in the Key indicates that that is a likely scenario since it seems Schueler wasn't in agreement which also is why the Key and its message was to be kept secret. That would mean that Schueler had to work behind Chihiros back which also means it's a good bet that the apparition of him in the church was his work and not Merlin et al since the message he gave there has commonalities with the message in the Key.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


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Re: Langhorne set up by Chihiro?
Post by SilverbladeTE   » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:31 am

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Joat42 wrote:I don't believe Chihiro was in cahoots with Kau-Yung or any of the other 'moderates' that was in agreement with Shan-Wei. Chihiro probably just went nuts after Kau-Yung blew up Langhorne and co.

It's possible Chihiro knew of Pei's real allegiance and used it to size power, but that seems a bit too Machiavellian since he had to predict accurately how Pei would react to the destruction of Shan-Wei's enclave.

In any way, it's most likely that Chihiro grabbed power after the bombing of Langhorne and went even further than what Langhorne had planned. The message from Schueler in the Key indicates that that is a likely scenario since it seems Schueler wasn't in agreement which also is why the Key and its message was to be kept secret. That would mean that Schueler had to work behind Chihiros back which also means it's a good bet that the apparition of him in the church was his work and not Merlin et al since the message he gave there has commonalities with the message in the Key.


Not in cahoots, but using them, setting it up
Chihiro bombs Alexandria, tells Kau-Yung Langhorne did it and then let him smuggle a nuke in
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Re: Langhorne set up by Chihiro?
Post by Joat42   » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:39 am

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SilverbladeTE wrote:Not in cahoots, but using them, setting it up
Chihiro bombs Alexandria, tells Kau-Yung Langhorne did it and then let him smuggle a nuke in

Which I noted was a bit too Machiavellian since he had to predict accurately how far Pei would go to retaliate, especially in light of the "official" rift between Pei and Shan-Wei.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: Langhorne set up by Chihiro?
Post by ssl4000g   » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:39 pm

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Joat42 wrote:I don't believe Chihiro was in cahoots with Kau-Yung or any of the other 'moderates' that was in agreement with Shan-Wei. Chihiro probably just went nuts after Kau-Yung blew up Langhorne and co.

It's possible Chihiro knew of Pei's real allegiance and used it to size power, but that seems a bit too Machiavellian since he had to predict accurately how Pei would react to the destruction of Shan-Wei's enclave.

In any way, it's most likely that Chihiro grabbed power after the bombing of Langhorne and went even further than what Langhorne had planned. The message from Schueler in the Key indicates that that is a likely scenario since it seems Schueler wasn't in agreement which also is why the Key and its message was to be kept secret. That would mean that Schueler had to work behind Chihiros back which also means it's a good bet that the apparition of him in the church was his work and not Merlin et al since the message he gave there has commonalities with the message in the Key.


That's an interesting thought Joat42, tying in the Schueler apparition with the Key message that we saw with Paiter. I hadn't thought about that.

If that is the case, then the Testimony of Schueler should really be an exciting reveal.

Waiting patiently for RFC....IS he done yet?! :P

W
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Re: Langhorne set up by Chihiro?
Post by Julia Minor   » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:39 pm

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Joat42 wrote:
SilverbladeTE wrote:Not in cahoots, but using them, setting it up
Chihiro bombs Alexandria, tells Kau-Yung Langhorne did it and then let him smuggle a nuke in

Which I noted was a bit too Machiavellian since he had to predict accurately how far Pei would go to retaliate, especially in light of the "official" rift between Pei and Shan-Wei.


Depends on just how they played the "rift" (which we'll never know unless RFC is in the mood for a prequel). I've known divorced couples who can't stand each other but send a condolence card to the ex after a death in the ex's family.

But Chihiro doesn't need to be full-on Machiavelli for this scenario. Langhorne, not Chihiro, was the Colony Administrator, and they set up a strongly hierarchical system on Safehold. The Rakurai order would have been ultimately credited to Langhorne, because he was the guy in charge. Chihiro wouldn't have needed to tell anyone Langhorne did it. All he needed to do was find an excuse to be late to the next meeting, and watch the security monitors to see if anyone (not necessarily Kau-yung) was going to try getting revenge on Langhorne. If Langhorne gets blown away by a covert Shan-wei supporter, Chihiro's in charge; if not, everyone's either loyal or intimidated. Either way, it's a win for the Langhorne/Chihiro system.
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Re: Langhorne set up by Chihiro?
Post by DMcCunney   » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:18 pm

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SilverbladeTE wrote:From topic that's come up in several threads, it seems possible Chihiro was behind much or even ALL the violence, Kinetic strike on Alexandria, maybe even letting Kau-Yung nuke the other leaders"

I've assumed this for a while.

It's been made clear that Chihiro had been working behind the scenes to supplant Langhorne. Kau Yung's nuking of Langhorne's HQ, killing Langhorne and Bedard as well as himself and his companion provided a perfect opportunity. He had already been promoted from Chief of Staff to Assistant Administrator by Langhorne in a reorganization when preparation of Safehold for the colonists had proceeded far enough that the colonists could be awakened from cryonic suspension in the original enclaves as Adams and Eves. When Langhorne was killed, he was the designated successor.

RFC also stated in a post here a while back the the OBS had been manufactured aboard Hamilcar by Angels loyal to Chihiro. and deployed just before use on the Alexandria Enclave to give Kau Yung no opportunity to intervene. He called Shan Wei the first victim, who was still loyal to Langhorne despite their disagreements right up to the point where the kinetic strike on the Alexandria Enclve killed her.

(And this provides the extreme irony that when Commodore Pei nuked Langhorne for killing his wife, he was killing the wrong guy.)

We don't know exactly what the Fallen who defeated Kohdy told him, but we do know he indicated it was Chihiro who had turned to evil. My guess is that he told Kohdy it was Chihiro who performed the Rakurai strike on the Alexandria Enclave, without Langhorne's authorization.

Langhorne, as colony Administrator, might have been considered to have the authority to order the strike. Chihiro, without explicit authorization from Langhorne, did not.

We know from textev that the War Against the Fallen did not begin till a couple of years after the Rakurai strike that produced Armageddon Reef. We also know the core of the Fallen were "those who looked to Kau Yung before his fall" - IE, naval and marine personnel Commodore Pei commanded as part of the naval squadron escorting the Operation Ark colony fleet, who served as planetary police force and SAR team after their warships were discarded.

I suspect there was disagreement among that group, but if verifiable evidence appeared that Chihiro had carried out the Rakurai strike without Langhorne's explicit authorization, and was busy making changes to Langhorne's original plan that they supported, a strong faction may have decided that Chihiro had become evil and needed to be opposed.

The Fallen were rebelling against Chihiro, who usurped Langhorne's authority and was making changes they could not support.

One question I've asked since OAR was "What would the Fallen have done if they had won?" Safehold is in part all about motivations, and we don't know Chihiro's or theirs.
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Re: Langhorne set up by Chihiro?
Post by Expert snuggler   » Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:24 pm

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> some of the deaths in Through Fiery Trials seem damn "convenient" and unexpected

Oh yes. "One is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action".

Except I have trouble seeing why any organization causing the deaths would have to act in secret.
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Re: Langhorne set up by Chihiro?
Post by SilverbladeTE   » Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:54 pm

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Expert snuggler wrote:> some of the deaths in Through Fiery Trials seem damn "convenient" and unexpected

Oh yes. "One is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action".

Except I have trouble seeing why any organization causing the deaths would have to act in secret.


Because it's ...some possibilities:

Sandirah has gone rogue and using some of the Sisters of Saint Khody who think Merlin is lying and its all Shan Wei etc etc
Sandirah may have kept her real beliefs hidden
I doubt this though as a possibility because in TFT it's noted they used the truth gem (I forget name, verifier?) Of Paityr Wilson to check new folk's veracity for the Inner Circle and I'd have made sure to BACK check as well.


Could Chihiro have left his own secret group behind?

Desnarian or Harchong "ninjas"?
Corrupt old regimes may have had such things, but couldn't place agents much during the Jihad.
Nothing impossible in having a group/clan of assassins.

Or more than one group with their own agendas?

Just too many damn deaths at "convenient" times and of CRITICAL people.

If I was the Inner Circle I damn well would have had serious autopsies done
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