PeterZ wrote:Dennis, I am rereading TFT. Dohlar had their first modern foundry and manufactory started in 901-902. The UP had their started in 905. Dohlar will have their manufactory up and running for 12-13 years using turbine powered pneumatic power tools. The UP will have their first foundry and manufactory up and running for 9 years. As I recall in 9 years Merlin took Charis from oar powered galleys to steam powered armored cruisers supported by 8-10 manufactories.
I can see Dohlar duplicating that feat and the UP exceeding that total. Recall that Boisseau has the lions share of Harchong's craftsmen. Harchong is renowned for having the best craftsmen on Safehold. That core group of craftsmen will be the backbone of the manufactory system. They will be the supervisors and trainers for all those serfs and peasants. Dohlar will be just behind because they won't have the same number of craftsmen. Heck, I doubt Charis had as many craftsmen as Boisseau.
Bottom line is that the UP will start off with more trained personnel and with a higher tech base than Charis did pre-Merlin. That argues for their going farther faster than Charis.
Erls wrote:
The UP has 'trained personnel' in the same way that continental Europe had far more 'trained personnel' than Britain at the start of the Industrial Revolution. That is to say, someone extremely well trained in hand-crafting swords, arbalests, muskets, or thousands of other things is still completely untrained as far as an industrial economy is concerned.
Keep in mind that Dohlar, out of all of Charis' enemies during the Jihad, came closest to matching Charis. That means that they started (post-war) with a better tech base than the UP.
And they didn't have a civil war to contend with. They have a growing relationship with Charis that is only going to grow closer as all of Dohlar's neighbors turn against Charis (and them). Thirsk's grandson is now prince consort of the Empire (Spoiler!) as well. The UP may well be growing faster than Dohlar is - they just are not caught up yet in terms of total development.
Good points. I would remind you that the state of craftsmanship in the UP was better than was the case in Charis. That is the trained personnel were very good at making things one item at a time. Charis transitioned into mass production in 9 years. The UP starts with a better and deeper base of those trained craftsmen as a percentage of their population along with a larger population to boot.
That means they have more institutional knowledge in the hands of more people to train up the UP workforce. Finding people to work their first manufactory will be a piece of cake. Training up the cadre for the second manufactory will also be easier than it was in Charis. They won't have to re-invent the wheel, but simply adopt and perhaps tweak proven processes that have made Charis so successful.
Also recall that Harchong has secular institutions teaching administration. I translate that as managing processes in organizations with large numbers of people. The principle skillset for that is executing defined processes and systems. Innovation might suffer, but, barring graft, efficiency would be improved. I think of the Japanese post WWII. W. Edwards Deming's work there created a process centric model that drove quality and efficiency. The Up is primed to follow that avenue. Not everyone will be process oriented, but enough very well educated people there will be process oriented to make those organizations succeed handsomely. Others will innovate, but I suspect there are more than enough skilled process folks around to spawn lots of manufactories focusing on efficiency over innovation. Their success will draw lots of investment seeking just that efficiency.
Dohlar will more closely follow the innovation centric model of Charis. Their production will be efficient, but trail behind the UPers. Dohlar will develop novel applications that the UP might miss. I see the UP approaching Charisian per capita productivity much faster than Dohlar and Dohlar approaching Charisian's innovative mindset much better.
