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Series Re-read (sleuthing attempt #3)

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: Series Re-read (sleuthing attempt #3)
Post by PMike   » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:55 am

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Astelon wrote:
but we know the Gbaba have their own domain they don't venture out of unless disturbed, and they don't seem to be especially concerned about what's beyond it save whether it contains a potential threat.


We don't actually know this, we know almost nothing of the Gbaba's preferred practices. In fact all we know is that they have frozen their technology. They could be sitting in their own territory fat and happy until they detect signals from intelligent life, or they could be sending scouts to find intelligent life. Either way they attack when it is found.

I doubt that implants are what the Gbaba did or could detect. They probably detected FTL communications, or ships traversing hyperspace.
bold added

I think you missed my point. The quote is not intended to suggest that personal implants got the Gbaba's attention. The statement stuck out to me because RWC explained something (the stealthiness of the new implants) in a specific way that wasn't the easiest way (he could have just said, "Owl designed stealthy implants so that a healer will never see them".) He went out of his way to specify reasons why the TF designs were loud, or alternatively, were not stealthy.

My guess is that RWC being more specific here is a hint to help us think about the IC's problems--most likely the OBS but possibly the Gbaba.
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Re: Series Re-read (sleuthing attempt #3)
Post by Louis R   » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:08 am

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No. Nothing that can safely be implanted in the human brain is going to have a range measured even in km. The waste heat will kill you in minutes.

I think it unlikely that anything detectable outside atmosphere can be implanted anywhere in the body, for the same reason. Certainly nothing detectable across interplanetary distances.

And no, "better technology" is not going to get you past the hard limits of amplifier efficiency and what not. Not even 'perfect' [AKA lossless] components can couple more that 50% of the energy out of the antenna. The rest has to be dissipated in the system.

PMike wrote:
I think you missed my point. The quote is not intended to suggest that personal implants got the Gbaba's attention. The statement stuck out to me because RWC explained something (the stealthiness of the new implants) in a specific way that wasn't the easiest way (he could have just said, "Owl designed stealthy implants so that a healer will never see them".) He went out of his way to specify reasons why the TF designs were loud, or alternatively, were not stealthy.

My guess is that RWC being more specific here is a hint to help us think about the IC's problems--most likely the OBS but possibly the Gbaba.
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Re: Series Re-read (sleuthing attempt #3)
Post by PMike   » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:20 pm

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Louis R wrote:No. Nothing that can safely be implanted in the human brain is going to have a range measured even in km. The waste heat will kill you in minutes.

I think it unlikely that anything detectable outside atmosphere can be implanted anywhere in the body, for the same reason. Certainly nothing detectable across interplanetary distances.

And no, "better technology" is not going to get you past the hard limits of amplifier efficiency and what not. Not even 'perfect' [AKA lossless] components can couple more that 50% of the energy out of the antenna. The rest has to be dissipated in the system.

PMike wrote:
I think you missed my point. The quote is not intended to suggest that personal implants got the Gbaba's attention. The statement stuck out to me because RWC explained something (the stealthiness of the new implants) in a specific way that wasn't the easiest way (he could have just said, "Owl designed stealthy implants so that a healer will never see them".) He went out of his way to specify reasons why the TF designs were loud, or alternatively, were not stealthy.

My guess is that RWC being more specific here is a hint to help us think about the IC's problems--most likely the OBS but possibly the Gbaba.


Wait. What? Did you even read what I wrote? The post is about a possible RWC hints. I specifically said “the quote was not intended to suggest personal implants got the Gbaba’s attention.” It’s more a general revelation of attitude...security in the TF was about encryption, not making signals undetectable.

To summarize, hopefully better, my speculation arising from the quote in the OP is that the OBS is set so that human kind remains inspired to hide from the Gbaba. It is set to violently crush anything generating Gbaba detectable emissions, signal or noise that escapes the atmosphere.

To try and explain, hopefully better: PreGbaba, the TF probably did not hide EM emissions from most electronics b/c they saw no reason to do so. From the first hints the gbabba might exist until operation Ark was only 55 years. Mankind was pushed back to the Sol system in less than 30 years after the first direct encounter with the Gbaba. The Gbaba found every human inhabited system in 30 years or less...because at first the humans weren’t trying to hide and then because the humans didn’t have time to hide what was previously unhidden.

Maybe that’s clearer.
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Re: Series Re-read (sleuthing attempt #3)
Post by Louis R   » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:14 pm

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It was always clear - and to make my point clearer:

Implants are completely and totally irrelevant to the question of what can be detected by either the Gbaba _or_ the OBS because the emissions are not and _cannot_be_ strong enough to be detected by either.

The standard implants probably are loud enough to be detected by SNARCs deployed to take a look at what the heck is going on in Charis, and it would appear to be at ranges that would permit the SNARC in question to be undetected by the remotes monitoring the main IC members. Although, come to think of it, it wouldn't really matter if the hostile SNARC were detected or not, since it probably couldn't be destroyed at all, and wouldn't be before it could report. At which point, not only would the hostiles know that cats were out of bags, but pretty much where at least some of them were to be found.

However, I doubt that that was a consideration either. The reduced range is much more likely to result from the limitations of the design adopted - it probably can't handle the power levels of the old-style implants at all, and certainly couldn't do so safely.

PMike wrote:
Louis R wrote:No. Nothing that can safely be implanted in the human brain is going to have a range measured even in km. The waste heat will kill you in minutes.

I think it unlikely that anything detectable outside atmosphere can be implanted anywhere in the body, for the same reason. Certainly nothing detectable across interplanetary distances.

And no, "better technology" is not going to get you past the hard limits of amplifier efficiency and what not. Not even 'perfect' [AKA lossless] components can couple more that 50% of the energy out of the antenna. The rest has to be dissipated in the system.


PMike wrote:
Wait. What? Did you even read what I wrote? The post is about a possible RWC hints. I specifically said “the quote was not intended to suggest personal implants got the Gbaba’s attention.” It’s more a general revelation of attitude...security in the TF was about encryption, not making signals undetectable.

To summarize, hopefully better, my speculation arising from the quote in the OP is that the OBS is set so that human kind remains inspired to hide from the Gbaba. It is set to violently crush anything generating Gbaba detectable emissions, signal or noise that escapes the atmosphere.

To try and explain, hopefully better: PreGbaba, the TF probably did not hide EM emissions from most electronics b/c they saw no reason to do so. From the first hints the gbabba might exist until operation Ark was only 55 years. Mankind was pushed back to the Sol system in less than 30 years after the first direct encounter with the Gbaba. The Gbaba found every human inhabited system in 30 years or less...because at first the humans weren’t trying to hide and then because the humans didn’t have time to hide what was previously unhidden.

Maybe that’s clearer.
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Re: Series Re-read (sleuthing attempt #3)
Post by shayvaan   » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:14 am

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Probable answer for the wetware/Pasquale debate.

The book of Pasquale probably DID mention the Adam/Eve wetware (along with necessary instructions for removing damaged parts that had become dangerous to the owner, when possible).

However, we also know that the writ of today is NOT the writ of yesteryear. Any mention of it was probably excised after the last of them died.

As for Merlin's concern over implant signal detection, his concern was probably over anyone with implants going near or into the Temple's precincts.
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