Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

St. Kohdy’s tomb: what REALLY destroyed it?

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: St. Kohdy’s tomb: what REALLY destroyed it?
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:22 pm

Dilandu
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1853
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 12:44 pm
Location: Russia

SCC wrote:
In response the the OP's question: The tomb was destroyed as part of a program to erase the actual history of the Seijin's with, well let's just call it a suitably heroic one.


Again, it seems more like a partizan operation of some Archangel (quite probably Chichiro), not the coordinated decision of all remaining Archangels. After all, if they all wanted to erase the true history of Kohdy, why return his body at all?

It looks more like that the general consensus between Archangels was to leave the Kohdy as it was. But someone - Chichiro, probably - was not satisfied with this, and left secret instruction to Rakurai Array and Temple system. The Rakurai Array destroyed the original abbey AFTER Archangels departed, and Temple AI's worked to re-write the Church history, probably by making small alteration to archives over the decades.
------------------------------

- Who would won in battle between strawman Liberal-Democrat and strawman Conservative-Republican?
- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

P.S. - And he have Russian twin, to watch his back)
Top
Re: St. Kohdy’s tomb: what REALLY destroyed it?
Post by SCC   » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:43 pm

SCC
Commander

Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:04 am

Dilandu wrote:
SCC wrote:
In response the the OP's question: The tomb was destroyed as part of a program to erase the actual history of the Seijin's with, well let's just call it a suitably heroic one.


Again, it seems more like a partizan operation of some Archangel (quite probably Chichiro), not the coordinated decision of all remaining Archangels. After all, if they all wanted to erase the true history of Kohdy, why return his body at all?

It looks more like that the general consensus between Archangels was to leave the Kohdy as it was. But someone - Chichiro, probably - was not satisfied with this, and left secret instruction to Rakurai Array and Temple system. The Rakurai Array destroyed the original abbey AFTER Archangels departed, and Temple AI's worked to re-write the Church history, probably by making small alteration to archives over the decades.

The whole operation to remove Kody, and presumably the other real Seijin's, from the history books couldn't've been the work of one person and would actually have required the knowledge and cooperation of all the Angels.
Top
Re: St. Kohdy’s tomb: what REALLY destroyed it?
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:58 pm

Dilandu
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1853
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 12:44 pm
Location: Russia

SCC wrote:The whole operation to remove Kody, and presumably the other real Seijin's, from the history books couldn't've been the work of one person and would actually have required the knowledge and cooperation of all the Angels.


Why? Firstly, I'm not sure that any other real Seijin's were so completely removed. I could not recall textevs about that.

Secondly, by the time Archangels departed, the population of Safehold was still very limited, living in mostly-isolated enclaves. The planet was big; the human population of it was of low millions, and deliberately dispersed.

Basically the only thing that Archangel(s) needed, is to order the Temple AI to remove the actual mentions of Kohdy from Temple archives. Considering that they managed to do MUCH more - they managed to completely remove the whole War Against The Fallen from history - pushing one Seijin from "real" to "dubious" wasn't a big deal.
------------------------------

- Who would won in battle between strawman Liberal-Democrat and strawman Conservative-Republican?
- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

P.S. - And he have Russian twin, to watch his back)
Top
Re: St. Kohdy’s tomb: what REALLY destroyed it?
Post by WeberFan   » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:07 pm

WeberFan
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 308
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:12 am

SCC wrote:
WeberFan wrote:Go back and take a look at the textev...

The FIRST "arrow" was the folks who had been "deprogrammed."

The SECOND arrow was Nimue.

Pretty sure it's the other way around, Nimue's the first arrow.

In response the the OP's question: The tomb was destroyed as part of a program to erase the actual history of the Seijin's with, well let's just call it a suitably heroic one.

Just because I got my dander up, and because it made me want to feel that chill up my spine when I read it again...

Emphasis mine:

By Schism Rent Asunder, July, Year of God 892 .VI. Captain Merlin Athrawes Quarters, Archbishop's Palace, and Royal Palace, City of Tellesberg, Kingdom of Charis

"Yet we know this, whoever you may be who finally reads these words. We were but one string to Dr. Pei's bow of truth. There is another. I know but little about that second string, and even that I know mostly be accident. It was never Dr. Pei's intention for us to learn about it at all - again, for obvious reasons. But I know this much. She and Commodore Pei have made other preparations, other plans, as well as this one. I will not write even the small amount I do know, lest this letter fall into the Inquisition's hands. Yet you must always remember that second string. The day will come when it sends forth its arrow, and you must recognize it when it flies. Trust it. It springs from fidelity you cannot even imagine, from a sacrifice deeper than space itself. I believe you will know it if - when - you see it, and this is the test: Nimue."
Top
Re: St. Kohdy’s tomb: what REALLY destroyed it?
Post by SCC   » Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:44 pm

SCC
Commander

Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:04 am

Dilandu wrote:
SCC wrote:The whole operation to remove Kody, and presumably the other real Seijin's, from the history books couldn't've been the work of one person and would actually have required the knowledge and cooperation of all the Angels.


Why? Firstly, I'm not sure that any other real Seijin's were so completely removed. I could not recall textevs about that.

Secondly, by the time Archangels departed, the population of Safehold was still very limited, living in mostly-isolated enclaves. The planet was big; the human population of it was of low millions, and deliberately dispersed.

Basically the only thing that Archangel(s) needed, is to order the Temple AI to remove the actual mentions of Kohdy from Temple archives. Considering that they managed to do MUCH more - they managed to completely remove the whole War Against The Fallen from history - pushing one Seijin from "real" to "dubious" wasn't a big deal.

If the other Seijin's weren't removed then their images and stories where sanitized to an absurd degree that they might as well have been, Merlin comments at one point how the legends of Kody differ from the stories about the other Seijin's.

@WeberFan, that's Zherneau't take on the situation, not Shen-wei's
Top
Re: St. Kohdy’s tomb: what REALLY destroyed it?
Post by schoeffelk   » Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:10 am

schoeffelk
Lieutenant (Senior Grade)

Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:40 pm
Location: Bradenton, FL

All we know is the story MWW has told us. We only know about Kodhy because of Ninian and the Sisters. There may be, and likely are others not mentioned. As for the other Seijins, they never had a crisis of faith, bad memories resurfacing, or may not had the notoriety of Kohdy. I agree that the strike plan may have been set in motion once the Archangels departed/died.
Top
Re: St. Kohdy’s tomb: what REALLY destroyed it?
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:02 am

fallsfromtrees
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1838
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Mesa, Arizona

And what textev is there that Shan-Wei didn't have THREE arrows to her bow?
========================

The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
Top
Re: St. Kohdy’s tomb: what REALLY destroyed it?
Post by Joat42   » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:38 am

Joat42
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1391
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:01 am
Location: Sweden

fallsfromtrees wrote:And what textev is there that Shan-Wei didn't have THREE arrows to her bow?

Exactly, the passage doesn't preclude the possibility of more strings, especially in light who wrote it and the knowledge of Nimue was accidental.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
Top

Return to Safehold