HFQ Offical Snippet #4

Henry Brown wrote:The idea of writing in Spanish to conceal his thoughts doesn't really make that much sense. At least for the time of Seijin Kohdy. Think about it, Kohdy living during a period where the archangels were still around. They had Federation tech. So had his journal fallen into the wrong hands during his lifetime, they would have easily been able to translate the Spanish parts using a computer.

The only way it makes sense to me is if he was trying to conceal information from later generations. Maybe whatever he wrote was something he didn't think people were ready to hear at the time. So he wrote it in Spanish. Since it is an unknown language on Safehold, then it would be virtually impossible to read. Only somebody with some knowledge of the Federation or with access to technology would be able to translate those portions of his diary.

Actually, it makes plenty of sense. You just don't yet know why it does.

And the people who are saying "Gee whiz, surely they could have figured out something as simple as a foreign language' are way underestimating the difficulties in figuring out how to translate another language when the only one in existence (aside from the limited sections of a single document) is English. Different grammar, different verb forms, different sentence structure, different idiom, etc. Don't assume there were bunches of proper nouns which could provide cognates, at least for names, either.

You guys are doing an awful lot of speculating on a very limited information base at the moment.

Just saying.

Weird Harold wrote:
Why does everyone assume Kohdy dates from the time of the Archangels? Kohdy could just as easily be "Son of Zorro" as he could be an original "Zorro." He could have learned Spanish from a parent who spoke Spanish at home out of nostalgia.(SNIP).

Unless he was the son of an Angel or Archangel with an unaltered memory, said parent would have no knowledge of any other language,also, speaking Spanish learned from a parent is one thing. Writing entire journal entries in Spanish implies some study.

You know, given that English is the only language that was supposed to be on Safehold, the mere fact that Kohdy wrote Spanish in his diaries would have rung alarm bells if any "Angel" learned of it. Never mind what he was writing about, just using Spanish would be a "forbidden knowledge" violation.

But of course, Spanish would only be recognizable as forbidden knowledge to someone who already knew about Spanish. To anyone else, Spanish would just look like particularly exotic code. Suspicious perhaps, but not automatically labeled as "forbidden".

Which is basically another example of how trying to forbid knowledge without actually telling what knowledge is actually forbidden is doomed to failure.

Edit: Also, I'm going to have to go with Spanish not being a dead language when the Federation fell and that Kohdy personally knew it. After all, why encode a journal in Spanish? Why not something more obscure or alien to English? Like Russian, or Chinese, or even Navajo?

Perhaps he knew it or learnt it, as some people leanr languages for fun, or to learn more about history or their family history. So he could use it because he would know it already, and wouldnt need to learn another language to encode it in, and wouldnt have to worry about tripping off alarms by higher ups about someone learning a language when the future safehold is english only.

evilauthor wrote:You know, given that English is the only language that was supposed to be on Safehold, the mere fact that Kohdy wrote Spanish in his diaries would have rung alarm bells if any "Angel" learned of it. Never mind what he was writing about, just using Spanish would be a "forbidden knowledge" violation.

But of course, Spanish would only be recognizable as forbidden knowledge to someone who already knew about Spanish. To anyone else, Spanish would just look like particularly exotic code. Suspicious perhaps, but not automatically labeled as "forbidden".

Which is basically another example of how trying to forbid knowledge without actually telling what knowledge is actually forbidden is doomed to failure.

Edit: Also, I'm going to have to go with Spanish not being a dead language when the Federation fell and that Kohdy personally knew it. After all, why encode a journal in Spanish? Why not something more obscure or alien to English? Like Russian, or Chinese, or even Navajo?

runsforcelery wrote:
You guys are doing an awful lot of speculating on a very limited information base at the moment.

Just saying.

After all that is the point of releasing a snippet isn't it, to spark speculation? Jus sayin. Besides, judging by the posts in this forum, a rather large statistical sample, David Weber fans love to speculate from limited data. Maybe tho it is just in hopes of a rousing, soul satisfying AHAH TOLDYA SO, I KNEW IT, when the actual book comes out. Die hard David Weber fans are even willing to risk getting their pet theories brutally shot down by the master of the Weberverse himself or torn to shreds by the verbal claws of the person with the treecat name runsforcelery.

Hi EvilAuthor,

Given all Federation humans had NEATS, learning a new language might not have been that hard, and keeping languages alive while English was the primary might have been part of some demonstrating their humanity and diversity in the face of the inevitable destruction by the Gbaba.

Until we get another snippet from RFC, our floundering will continue to amuse our story-dealer, so he might be merciful if we amuse him enough.

Putting a good or critical part of the book in Spanish might be a great publishing ploy, despite my lack of learning it since third grade.

L

evilauthor wrote:You know, given that English is the only language that was supposed to be on Safehold, the mere fact that Kohdy wrote Spanish in his diaries would have rung alarm bells if any "Angel" learned of it. Never mind what he was writing about, just using Spanish would be a "forbidden knowledge" violation.

But of course, Spanish would only be recognizable as forbidden knowledge to someone who already knew about Spanish. To anyone else, Spanish would just look like particularly exotic code. Suspicious perhaps, but not automatically labeled as "forbidden".

Which is basically another example of how trying to forbid knowledge without actually telling what knowledge is actually forbidden is doomed to failure.

Edit: Also, I'm going to have to go with Spanish not being a dead language when the Federation fell and that Kohdy personally knew it. After all, why encode a journal in Spanish? Why not something more obscure or alien to English? Like Russian, or Chinese, or even Navajo?

Writing in another script (Navajo, Chinese or Arabic or ...) would make sense if the sole goal was to keep things secret. But then, you need also to learn it first. And if Kodhy was command crew, with the use of available NEATs, he could then self learn a completly artificial one too.

Writing in Spanish like here, effectively keep things hidden form Safeholdians but not command crew. And translation will be hard, without the usual cultural clues.

An interesting twist is that he started to write in Spanish at the end of his notes, and wrote more and more in it. If it was mother tongue language, that may bemelancoly, desillusion, saudad whatever at times that are tough. In that case, the fact it keeps secrets is incidental.

evilauthor wrote:You know, given that English is the only language that was supposed to be on Safehold, the mere fact that Kohdy wrote Spanish in his diaries would have rung alarm bells if any "Angel" learned of it. Never mind what he was writing about, just using Spanish would be a "forbidden knowledge" violation.

But of course, Spanish would only be recognizable as forbidden knowledge to someone who already knew about Spanish. To anyone else, Spanish would just look like particularly exotic code. Suspicious perhaps, but not automatically labeled as "forbidden".

Which is basically another example of how trying to forbid knowledge without actually telling what knowledge is actually forbidden is doomed to failure.

Edit: Also, I'm going to have to go with Spanish not being a dead language when the Federation fell and that Kohdy personally knew it. After all, why encode a journal in Spanish? Why not something more obscure or alien to English? Like Russian, or Chinese, or even Navajo?

BobG wrote:[quote="isaac_newton
Without a grammer book & a good understanding, she would almost certainly end up with the completely wrong ideas.

I found that out the hard way doing latin translations at school - they ended up being almost 100% spurious - and I was really convinced I done a good job too

I'm actually surprised they couldn't figure some of it out. A language seems easier to me than a code - or maybe they're almost the same thing.

-- Bob G[/quote]

I see your 'language seems easier than a code'
and I raise you an RFC

And the people who are saying "Gee whiz, surely they could have figured out something as simple as a foreign language' are way underestimating the difficulties in figuring out how to translate another language when the only one in existence (aside from the limited sections of a single document) is English. Different grammar, different verb forms, different sentence structure, different idiom, etc. Don't assume there were bunches of proper nouns which could provide cognates, at least for names, either.

Thus proving how right Sharp Claw was above...

Maybe tho it is just in hopes of a rousing, soul satisfying AHAH TOLDYA SO, I KNEW IT

This whole snippets thing is awful!!!

I was already suffering (deeply) over the fact that I can't stop myself from reading again and again and again AND AGAIN David Weber's books while I still have hundreds (litterally hundreds) of books that I still have to open for the first time. But know I've started to read again and agin the snippets too!! I think I'm doomed... Am I a junkie?

I can't wait to know more about WHAT is in this journal, it seems to me that, if initially Khody may have been on Langhorne's side, he started to have serious doubts.

However, it is not clear now if he acted on those doubt (more than writing his journal I mean). If I remember correctly, it has been stated that the sisters of Khody were not funded BY Khody, but rather by people who knew him and about him, and had his journal (question: since he was a ladies's man, do you think the sisters were initially former lovers of him ?).

OlorinNight wrote:I was already suffering (deeply) over the fact that I can't stop myself from reading again and again and again AND AGAIN David Weber's books while I still have hundreds (litterally hundreds) of books that I still have to open for the first time.

Digression.

While I wait for more from MWW/RFC I'm re-reading the "Kitty the Werewolf" books and the "Southern Vampire" (True Blood) Series