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And following along with out of order snippets . . . . .

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Re: And following along with out of order snippets . . . . .
Post by Peter2   » Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:53 am

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McGuiness wrote:I first discovered RFC's books one day at my local library when I found "The Shiva Option" among one or two of his other books. Since SF and Fantasy are my two favorite genres, I grabbed it off the shelf, and honestly, to this day I think it's one of his best books. I petitioned my library to buy the entire series, and found its prequel "In Death Ground" to be terrifying, as the Bug war kicked off and the humans and 'cats took it in the teeth. (And became lunch.)

The library only had two of the Honor Harrington series, and although I begged them to buy the rest, they shot me down. They did buy "War of Honor," which to my utter shock came with a CD in the back that had every previous book in the Honorverse on it, plus several other series of RFC's and some of his solo novels. I don't think I came up for air for at least two or three months! That CD got me completely hooked on the Honorverse, and filled in all the blanks in the one or two books of his other series that my library somehow hadn't sold off.

My local library has a bad habit of selling donated books even if they don't have a copy of the donated book on the shelves to check out. This is really annoying if they're about to sell a book that would fill a gap in an ongoing series which they've only partially completed. I've found it helpful to plop such books on the front desk at checkout and inform them that they can fill a gap in a series if they'll put it on the shelf, and they're good about doing that. I guess they just don't want to sort through the donated books to see what they have and what they don't...

At the point that RFC and Baen decided to make his earliest books - including entire series from earlier in his career available to late-coming readers for free, they rolled the dice on losing the sales those books might still have generated. However, they gained thousands and thousands of new fans to several of his ongoing series - Bahzell, Honor, "The Stars at War," Dahak, the 1632 series with Eric Flint, and some fabulous solo novels like "The Excalibur Alternative."

One day I looked on the library shelf, not expecting that RFC would have new novel for a while, (or that they'd buy it without me begging them if he did!) and there sat "Off Armageddon Reef!" I took it home and read it twice, and checked it out at least twice more before finally buying the eBook. I've picked up every novel in the series the day it came out ever since, although I prefer eBooks because they don't weight anything and I can adjust the text size on my computer screen, plus I can scan them for the ridiculous amount of research I do in writing far too many of my posts!

RFC didn't need to give away all those eBooks, but in my case, doing so led to me convince my library to buy a lot of his books, and when they wouldn't, I filled in the blanks myself. (They now consider him a first-line author and have his books available within a week of the publish date.) Having those books on the library shelves continues to expose more and more readers to his books, and yeah, those inaccurate but cool looking covers do hook a lot of readers. So by giving away his older books, some which were out of print, he gained future sales and a bunch of new readers.

Eric Flint, who as we all know has co-written several books with RFC including the Torch books in the Honorverse (and who we owe Honor's life to by speeding up the timeline!) puts his books in the Baen Free library three months after they're issued in mass paperback, and they're all still in print. So clearly he, RFC, and Baen know what they're doing. My local library only had 1632 and 1634:The Baltic War (co-written by RFC) so I was thrilled to find the earlier books in the series in the Baen free library.

Thank you RFC for giving the "Ok" to put that CD in your novels, since it gave me and so many others the chance to be introduced or catch up on every book in many of your series. I'm sure you've gained many more readers and have more sales by giving those eBooks away than you ever would had we been left to our own resources to find copies of your earlier books, and you gained a great deal of goodwill as well. ;)


98% agree. I'm not quite as keen on the later books in the "1632" series (or the Multiverse series) as you apparently are, but apart from those, I'm with you all the way. I got some of the early books (legitimately) for free, but I don't make a habit of it. I'm a firm believer that "the labourer is worthy of his hire", and that if I find a book is worth reading, it's worth paying for. Besides, if an author doesn't get any reward for the work he puts into his writing, he won't be able to afford to do it, and we the readers won't get the books we want. I never got WAREZ computer games, for the same reason.
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Re: And following along with out of order snippets . . . . .
Post by Weird Harold   » Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:00 am

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Answers! I got lots of answers!

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Re: And following along with out of order snippets . . . . .
Post by Louis R   » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:07 am

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:D

You wouldn't have been watching when all this was happening, but it was pretty much all done in 'public' on Baen's Bar. Several writers have confirmed that sales of books placed in the Free Library or on CDs went up _after_ they became available for free. In fact, the 'Second Editions' now coming out for a lot of Free Library works are there to let people continue to buy them if they choose to, despite Amazon's policy of matching the lowest price found anywhere on the internet.

McGuiness wrote:Eric Flint, who as we all know has co-written several books with RFC including the Torch books in the Honorverse (and who we owe Honor's life to by speeding up the timeline!) puts his books in the Baen Free library three months after they're issued in mass paperback, and they're all still in print. So clearly he, RFC, and Baen know what they're doing. My local library only had 1632 and 1634:The Baltic War (co-written by RFC) so I was thrilled to find the earlier books in the series in the Baen free library.

Thank you RFC for giving the "Ok" to put that CD in your novels, since it gave me and so many others the chance to be introduced or catch up on every book in many of your series. I'm sure you've gained many more readers and have more sales by giving those eBooks away than you ever would had we been left to our own resources to find copies of your earlier books, and you gained a great deal of goodwill as well. ;)
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Re: And following along with out of order snippets . . . . .
Post by ChronicRder   » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:04 pm

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At the risk of repeating a question:
Why hasn't the Seijin network, or one of their allied organizations, capture Brother Lynkyn? Surely their operations can include snatch and grab instead of all being flashy, guerilla surgical strikes with mass carnage and mayhem. Though I do love reading those...not as much as a Zhasper tantrum, but still enjoy them.

I can't imagine it would be that hard to get him to defect since his life is forfeit either if the Church wins (and he's no longer useful) or one of his innovations hits a not-so-insignificant snag (in which case, the Zhasper has a reason to detain and execute him). Either way, he's a dead man. It's purely a question of now or later. Plus, if the Allies snag him and get him to throw in with them, Merlin's grand mission is still on track.
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Re: And following along with out of order snippets . . . . .
Post by Weird Harold   » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:13 pm

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ChronicRder wrote:At the risk of repeating a question:
Why hasn't the Seijin network, or one of their allied organizations, capture Brother Lynkyn? Surely their operations can include snatch and grab instead of all being flashy, guerilla surgical strikes with mass carnage and mayhem. Though I do love reading those...not as much as a Zhasper tantrum, but still enjoy them.


As far as the general population of Safehold is concerned, you make a very strong point. However...

For Merlin and the inner circle's real goal, it is essential that the CoGA be see to innovate and grant exceptions to the Proscriptions. Brother Lynkyn and other innovators serving the Jihad are crucial to eventually breaking the Proscriptions by popular demand rather than Charis being seen as the source of all "demonic" advancements.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

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Re: And following along with out of order snippets . . . . .
Post by ChronicRder   » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:33 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
ChronicRder wrote:At the risk of repeating a question:
Why hasn't the Seijin network, or one of their allied organizations, capture Brother Lynkyn? Surely their operations can include snatch and grab instead of all being flashy, guerilla surgical strikes with mass carnage and mayhem. Though I do love reading those...not as much as a Zhasper tantrum, but still enjoy them.


As far as the general population of Safehold is concerned, you make a very strong point. However...

For Merlin and the inner circle's real goal, it is essential that the CoGA be see to innovate and grant exceptions to the Proscriptions. Brother Lynkyn and other innovators serving the Jihad are crucial to eventually breaking the Proscriptions by popular demand rather than Charis being seen as the source of all "demonic" advancements.


Thank you.

I see your point. But I have to think Maikel Staynair has to either have a mechanism in place for believers of mother Church, but who can't remain faithful to the Church as an organization (namely with the Inquisitors in power). I don't remember Paityr Wylsynn actually converting to the CoC. With that as a meter-stick, why would capturing Brother Lynkyn be problematic or impractical? That's from either/both the EoC's perspective and Merlin's over-arching mission.
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Re: And following along with out of order snippets . . . . .
Post by Weird Harold   » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:48 pm

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ChronicRder wrote:... why would capturing Brother Lynkyn be problematic or impractical? That's from either/both the EoC's perspective and Merlin's over-arching mission.


Brother Lynkyn is the CoGA innovator. Removing him removes most of the innovation from the Jihad. As problematic as his inventions are for the ICA, removing him from the Jihad kills the necessary movement towards innovation on that side of the conflict.

Merlin could snatch or assassinate Brother Lynkyn whenever he chooses, but doing so would put almost all innovation on the "Heretic's" side of the conflict and foster the perception, "innovation is Heresy." The inner circle can't afford to disrupt the "public relations" value of Brother Lynkyn's contributions to the Jihad -- i.e. "Innovation is just a tool the Church can use, too."
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

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Re: And following along with out of order snippets . . . . .
Post by ChronicRder   » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:05 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
ChronicRder wrote:... why would capturing Brother Lynkyn be problematic or impractical? That's from either/both the EoC's perspective and Merlin's over-arching mission.


Brother Lynkyn is the CoGA innovator. Removing him removes most of the innovation from the Jihad. As problematic as his inventions are for the ICA, removing him from the Jihad kills the necessary movement towards innovation on that side of the conflict.

Merlin could snatch or assassinate Brother Lynkyn whenever he chooses, but doing so would put almost all innovation on the "Heretic's" side of the conflict and foster the perception, "innovation is Heresy." The inner circle can't afford to disrupt the "public relations" value of Brother Lynkyn's contributions to the Jihad -- i.e. "Innovation is just a tool the Church can use, too."


Not necessarily, the other side would still have Thirsk's Lieutenant. His name escape me at present. Also, I doubt that would completely dismantle innovation from the Church's standpoint. It would hurt it; maybe even cripple it, but he's bound to trained a small cadre of people that can pick up at least some of the pieces his absence would create. There wouldn't be many, but even one or two would be enough.
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Re: And following along with out of order snippets . . . . .
Post by evilauthor   » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:32 pm

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ChronicRder wrote:Not necessarily, the other side would still have Thirsk's Lieutenant. His name escape me at present. Also, I doubt that would completely dismantle innovation from the Church's standpoint. It would hurt it; maybe even cripple it, but he's bound to trained a small cadre of people that can pick up at least some of the pieces his absence would create. There wouldn't be many, but even one or two would be enough.


Yes, but Dohlar is NOT the Church. Anything Dohlar does is not necessarily representative of the Church itself. Worst comes to worst, Dohlar simply joins the ranks of the Heretic nations and the Church is not seen innovating.

Not so with Brother Lynkyn. Brother Lynkyn is an actual member of the Church innovating using Church property, Church personnel, and Church land right next door to the Church capitol. There is literally no way the Church can divest Lynkyn's activities from itself in the public eye regardless of what Clyntahn thinks.
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Re: And following along with out of order snippets . . . . .
Post by Weird Harold   » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:47 pm

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ChronicRder wrote:Not necessarily, the other side would still have Thirsk's Lieutenant. His name escape me at present. ...


Thirsk's "wizard" isn't going to be working for the Jihad much longer as Charis can't afford to leave Dohlar actively opposing them. His innovations have mostly benefited Dohlar, unlike Brother Lynkyn, who has benefited nearly every "Army of God."

Losing Brother Lynkyn wouldn't completely cripple Church innovation, but the Proscriptions certainly wouldn't be pushed as hard from that side. I can't think of a single Church innovator that comes close to his genius that isn't in a precarious position regards the Empire of Charis or Siddarmark.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

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