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Could the inner circle push the old Terran fed tech along?

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Re: Could the inner circle push the old Terran fed tech alon
Post by runsforcelery   » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:21 am

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Since the question of relative capabilities --- and whether or not one might wish to risk pissing off The Thing Beneath the Temple, I thought I'd post this little out-of-order snippet. It would appear that Merlin actually manages to get himself or a remote (I say not which at this point and there has been some modest editing to acoid hints) inside the Temple, and discovered the following:

out of order TFT snippet wrote:
The Temple was riddled with even more — far more — power sources than they'd been able to detect and track from outside its walls. They'd blazed up the instant his passives had crossed the Plaza of Martyrs.

He'd always thought Chihro's decision to plate the Temple's silver dome in eight centimeters of armorplast had been ridiculous, even for a lunatic like him. There'd been far less . . . exorbitant ways to keep that dome mystically mirror bright for centuries on end. It certainly hadn't been required for any conceivable structural reason! Indeed, when Nimue Alban first observed the Temple, she'd thought she'd seen flimsier planetary-defense command bunkers.

It hadn't occurred to her — and it damned well should have — that the reason she'd thought that was that she had seen flimsier PDC bunkers. Because even though the people living and working in the Temple and its "Archangel-built" Annex didn't know it, a planetary-defense bunker was precisely what Chihro and the surviving "archangels" had set out to build.

The Temple's exterior walls might look as if they faced with seventy-five centimeters of fine de Castro marble, but that "marble" was actually solid ceramacrete, carefully disguised to look like marble, and it was sandwiched around battle steel bulkheads that were themselves twenty centimeters thick. The central dome was a hemisphere of "marble-faced" battle steel almost as thick as the walls' bulkheads, and the skylights which pierced it were ten-centimeter slabs of armorplast, all of that under the eight-centimeters of the exterior armorplast. The "stained glass" of its spectacular windows was equally formidable, and while its interior walls were rather less impenetrable, even they would have sneered at any conceivable muscle-powered — or, for that matter, gunpowder-powered — assault. They were also riddled with molecular circuitry controlling power, light, air conditioning and heat, powered doors, fire suppression systems, information terminals, surveillance systems which obviously reported to something, and the smart walls in the endless offices and living quarters. He'd detected over two dozen separate wireless nets, spreading beyond even the walls' mollycircs, tying together literally hundreds or even thousands of high-tech devices and artifacts the Church and its servants either never knew were there or else took totally for granted as part of the all encompassing proof of the Temple's divine nature.

He had no idea, even now, how deep the complex went, but he'd come to the conclusion that it must go deeper than they'd believed. Nimue's Cave was actually a complex of artificial caverns, each bigger than most of the Terran Federation Navy's shuttle hangers, hollowed out to house and conceal the tech base Pei Shan-wei and her terraforming crews had left for her. It was big enough to provide a formidable support base and fabrication facilities which could easily have springboarded modern technology on a planetary scale, if only they'd been able to operate openly. But it couldn't have supported and maintained anything on this scale, and he'd already detected a half dozen concealed doors — concealed from the current Church hierarchy, not just interlopers such as himself, he suspected. Two of them, including one which opened directly into the Plaza of Martyrs, were big enough full-scale assault shuttles could have passed through them with ease when they were open. There were clearly ramps behind those concealed doors, diving deep into the earth, and he found himself wondering just how big a hole Chihiro had dug when he built the place . . . and what hose ramps might lead to. Since there was no other high-tech presence on the planet, they'd always known any support base for the Temple had to be under it, but they'd never suspected how big it must be or how deep it might go.


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: Could the inner circle push the old Terran fed tech alon
Post by ywing14   » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:30 am

ywing14
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 389
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:40 pm

runsforcelery wrote:Since the question of relative capabilities --- and whether or not one might wish to risk pissing off The Thing Beneath the Temple, I thought I'd post this little out-of-order snippet. It would appear that Merlin actually manages to get himself or a remote (I say not which at this point and there has been some modest editing to acoid hints) inside the Temple, and discovered the following:

out of order TFT snippet wrote:
The Temple was riddled with even more — far more — power sources than they'd been able to detect and track from outside its walls. They'd blazed up the instant his passives had crossed the Plaza of Martyrs.

He'd always thought Chihro's decision to plate the Temple's silver dome in eight centimeters of armorplast had been ridiculous, even for a lunatic like him. There'd been far less . . . exorbitant ways to keep that dome mystically mirror bright for centuries on end. It certainly hadn't been required for any conceivable structural reason! Indeed, when Nimue Alban first observed the Temple, she'd thought she'd seen flimsier planetary-defense command bunkers.

It hadn't occurred to her — and it damned well should have — that the reason she'd thought that was that she had seen flimsier PDC bunkers. Because even though the people living and working in the Temple and its "Archangel-built" Annex didn't know it, a planetary-defense bunker was precisely what Chihro and the surviving "archangels" had set out to build.

The Temple's exterior walls might look as if they faced with seventy-five centimeters of fine de Castro marble, but that "marble" was actually solid ceramacrete, carefully disguised to look like marble, and it was sandwiched around battle steel bulkheads that were themselves twenty centimeters thick. The central dome was a hemisphere of "marble-faced" battle steel almost as thick as the walls' bulkheads, and the skylights which pierced it were ten-centimeter slabs of armorplast, all of that under the eight-centimeters of the exterior armorplast. The "stained glass" of its spectacular windows was equally formidable, and while its interior walls were rather less impenetrable, even they would have sneered at any conceivable muscle-powered — or, for that matter, gunpowder-powered — assault. They were also riddled with molecular circuitry controlling power, light, air conditioning and heat, powered doors, fire suppression systems, information terminals, surveillance systems which obviously reported to something, and the smart walls in the endless offices and living quarters. He'd detected over two dozen separate wireless nets, spreading beyond even the walls' mollycircs, tying together literally hundreds or even thousands of high-tech devices and artifacts the Church and its servants either never knew were there or else took totally for granted as part of the all encompassing proof of the Temple's divine nature.

He had no idea, even now, how deep the complex went, but he'd come to the conclusion that it must go deeper than they'd believed. Nimue's Cave was actually a complex of artificial caverns, each bigger than most of the Terran Federation Navy's shuttle hangers, hollowed out to house and conceal the tech base Pei Shan-wei and her terraforming crews had left for her. It was big enough to provide a formidable support base and fabrication facilities which could easily have springboarded modern technology on a planetary scale, if only they'd been able to operate openly. But it couldn't have supported and maintained anything on this scale, and he'd already detected a half dozen concealed doors — concealed from the current Church hierarchy, not just interlopers such as himself, he suspected. Two of them, including one which opened directly into the Plaza of Martyrs, were big enough full-scale assault shuttles could have passed through them with ease when they were open. There were clearly ramps behind those concealed doors, diving deep into the earth, and he found himself wondering just how big a hole Chihiro had dug when he built the place . . . and what hose ramps might lead to. Since there was no other high-tech presence on the planet, they'd always known any support base for the Temple had to be under it, but they'd never suspected how big it must be or how deep it might go.



Wwwwwwooooowwww. Can’t wait!
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Re: Could the inner circle push the old Terran fed tech alon
Post by Dilandu   » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:34 am

Dilandu
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Thank you, runsforcelery!

Well, at least we now knew something about the Things Under The Temple (TUTT for short). The complex is REALLY big, and actually made as military-grade fortress.

This led to some... interesting speculations. Since the underground citadel was commissioned after the War Against The Fallen (it was mentioned that "Dawn Star", i.e. the "Hamilcar" was still around during the latest stages of war), the question is "against whom" it was actually build? Probability of some surviving "demons" rebuilding the powerbase? Or anticipation of some Post-Return conflict?

VERY interesting!
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Could the inner circle push the old Terran fed tech alon
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:49 pm

PeterZ
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Goody, goody! More clues to use in our efforts of speculation.

We know that the hole beneath the Temple is very deep. We know that the hole was dug after the War Against the fallen. We know that Seijin Khody died before the WAtF was over. We know that the SSK was formed before the WAtF was over.

I wonder just how much documentary information is available on how deep the hole the AA actually dug? There were people living in the area. There should have been some Adams and Eves or at least children of Adams and Eves living in the area. They should have written records and the SSK may well have kept some of those records in their archives somewhere.

Also, there should be some data on what sorts of servitors those SSK ancestors witnessed or have documentation on.

If the construction of the Temple was done without anyone noticing, it argues for the Inner Circle being able to hide similar construction in some remote location. Well, not nearly as large, but large enough to house parts of a dispersed production system. If people did notice the construction, then there should be some documentary evidence about the construction. Inferences can be made from that evidence.

I really want to read this book!
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Re: Could the inner circle push the old Terran fed tech alon
Post by Dilandu   » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:58 pm

Dilandu
Admiral

Posts: 2536
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm
Location: Russia

PeterZ wrote:
If the construction of the Temple was done without anyone noticing, it argues for the Inner Circle being able to hide similar construction in some remote location. Well, not nearly as large, but large enough to house parts of a dispersed production system. If people did notice the construction, then there should be some documentary evidence about the construction. Inferences can be made from that evidence.

I really want to read this book!


Interesting, but hardly mattered. Whoever won the WaF clearly have situation around the Temple under tight control, so they probably make sure that no one would see what they are not supposed to see.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: Could the inner circle push the old Terran fed tech alon
Post by runsforcelery   » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:03 pm

runsforcelery
First Space Lord

Posts: 2425
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:39 am
Location: South Carolina

PeterZ wrote:Goody, goody! More clues to use in our efforts of speculation.

We know that the hole beneath the Temple is very deep. We know that the hole was dug after the War Against the fallen. We know that Seijin Khody died before the WAtF was over. We know that the SSK was formed before the WAtF was over.

I wonder just how much documentary information is available on how deep the hole the AA actually dug? There were people living in the area. There should have been some Adams and Eves or at least children of Adams and Eves living in the area. They should have written records and the SSK may well have kept some of those records in their archives somewhere.

Also, there should be some data on what sorts of servitors those SSK ancestors witnessed or have documentation on.

If the construction of the Temple was done without anyone noticing, it argues for the Inner Circle being able to hide similar construction in some remote location. Well, not nearly as large, but large enough to house parts of a dispersed production system. If people did notice the construction, then there should be some documentary evidence about the construction. Inferences can be made from that evidence.

I really want to read this book!



Conclusion based on facts not in evidence: "There were people living in the area."

In fact, there were not people living in what is now Zion when the Temple was built. That's one reason the "world capital" is located in a place where winter is so long and so savage that hundred an even thousands of homeless and/or poor routinely freeze to death or starve over the winter. The Temple Lands grew up from and extended outward from the Temple (aside from the enclaves on the south shore of Lake Pei), and the Temple was located where it is because Chihiro was rebuilding his citadel on the site of the "Archangels'" home on earth. The command crew's enclave had been built in an area that was inhospitable enough that its personnel wouldn't have to spend bunches of time being archangels just to keep the local rubes from figuring out that they weren't archangels. That is, the physical separation was part of maintaining the lie. The city of Zion grew up around the Temple only during the final stages of the War Against the Fallen, by which time Chihiro and the rest of the surviving command crew were perfectly happy being "Archangels" 26.5-5.


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: Could the inner circle push the old Terran fed tech alon
Post by Joat42   » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:07 pm

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Some thoughts:
  • Where did the tailings go from the excavation? Dumped in the sea? If you can find them you can guesstimate the size of the excavation.
  • Did they disassemble the Hamilcar and put it under the temple?
  • Passive scanning of the temple could be done by building something that mimics fed tech that is known to have been inside the temple, the key for example.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: Could the inner circle push the old Terran fed tech alon
Post by Dilandu   » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:16 pm

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Joat42 wrote:Some thoughts:
[list]
[*]Where did the tailings go from the excavation? Dumped in the sea? If you can find them you can guesstimate the size of the excavation.


Doubt that. Almost a thousand years passed since that. Any possible material would be dispersed greatly by currents.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: Could the inner circle push the old Terran fed tech alon
Post by Joat42   » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:28 pm

Joat42
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Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:01 am
Location: Sweden

Dilandu wrote:
Joat42 wrote:Some thoughts:
Where did the tailings go from the excavation? Dumped in the sea? If you can find them you can guesstimate the size of the excavation.

Doubt that. Almost a thousand years passed since that. Any possible material would be dispersed greatly by currents.

Most rocks doesn't move in currents. I'm assuming that using federation tech to excavate you cut the rock out in large chunks since it's easier to do that and transport it.

Also, Merlin has all the information from the original topographical scans and it should be relatively easy to find a dumping site with new scans, if they can be made without the OBS paying attention.

I guess the question comes down to how useful that bit of information is versus just assuming that the excavation was BIG.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: Could the inner circle push the old Terran fed tech alon
Post by Dilandu   » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:55 pm

Dilandu
Admiral

Posts: 2536
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm
Location: Russia

Joat42 wrote:Most rocks doesn't move in currents. I'm assuming that using federation tech to excavate you cut the rock out in large chunks since it's easier to do that and transport it.

Also, Merlin has all the information from the original topographical scans and it should be relatively easy to find a dumping site with new scans, if they can be made without the OBS paying attention.

I guess the question comes down to how useful that bit of information is versus just assuming that the excavation was BIG.


I'm not sure that cutting & hauling big chunks of rock is better than shattering them into the gravel - from the practical points of view. Also, gravel is more useful.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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