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HFQ Official Snippet #9

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: HFQ Official Snippet #9
Post by runsforcelery   » Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:13 am

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Highjohn wrote:
lyonheart wrote:...to simply occupy all the ports with RR leading inland....



I sorry I know I'm being dense but "RR"?


"RR" = "railroads," I believe. ;)

The equivalent on Safehold would be canals, assuming it was/is workable.


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #9
Post by pokermind   » Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:03 am

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Fellow posters we must remember how much steel railroads require for their tracks before blithely suggesting miles of railroad and that on Safehold steel production is a bottleneck.

Let’s look at a mile of track laid with fifty-five pound to the yard rail, ties two feet on center, and in fact the same rail specified for the first transcontinental railroad in the 1863 Pacific Railroad Act. For a mile of track the rails weigh 86.43 tons in 352 thirty foot rails. Splice bars weigh (352 @ 29 lbs/ pair ÷ 2,000 lbs/ ton =) 5.104 tons. Nuts and bolts weigh (352 x 4 x 200lbs ÷ 259 ÷ 2,000 lbs =) 0.544 tons. Spikes weigh (5,632 lbs ÷ 2,000 lbs / ton =) 2.816 tons. Totaling the ironmongery we have 94.894 tons. I used two primary references to get these numbers to crunch. The Handlan-Buck Railroad, Miners, Machinists, and Lumber Mill Supplies catalog of 1918, Handlan-Buck Mfg. Co., Saint Louis, Missouri, pages 325-326, and Marshall Kirkman, Building and Repairing Railways, World Railway Publishing Company, London, © 1907, pages 680-681.

Note that locomotives and railroad cars will require even more. Here is the weight of materials in a steam locomotive John H. White Jr. American Locomotives, an Engineering History 1830-1880, © 1968, Johns Hopkins Press, Baltimore, Maryland, pages 474 and 476 quotes the following totals for various materials use in an 1865 Hinkley Locomotive Works 4-4-0 with sixty inch drivers and 15 x 24 inch cylinders. Note that the weights are the finished parts not the rough castings or rough bar stock weight. I calculated following totals. The engine has: brass 1,948 lbs., wood 2,718 lbs, wrought iron 29,627 lbs., and cast iron 19,785 lbs. used in 4,904 parts. The tender has: brass 83 lbs., wood 3,118 lbs., wrought iron 8,330 lbs., and cast iron 6,987 lbs. used in 1,366 parts. Total weight engine 54,078 lbs., total weight tender 18,518 lbs, and total weight engine and tender is 72,596 lbs. spread over a total of 6,270 parts. Thus the locomotive and tender contain: brass 2,031 lbs. 1.0155 tons wood 5,836 lbs or 2.918 tons, wrought iron 37,957 lbs or 18.9785 tons, cast iron 67,772 lbs. or 13.386 tons. Substitute steel for wrought iron and you get the idea.

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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #9
Post by Thrandir   » Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:09 am

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Thanks RFC for the snippet was getting withdrawals ... lol

Love it when you point out such things Pokermind :mrgreen:

pokermind wrote:Fellow posters we must remember how much steel railroads require for their tracks before blithely suggesting miles of railroad and that on Safehold steel production is a bottleneck.

Let’s look at a mile of track laid with fifty-five pound to the yard rail, ties two feet on center, and in fact the same rail specified for the first transcontinental railroad in the 1863 Pacific Railroad Act. For a mile of track the rails weigh 86.43 tons in 352 thirty foot rails. Splice bars weigh (352 @ 29 lbs/ pair ÷ 2,000 lbs/ ton =) 5.104 tons. Nuts and bolts weigh (352 x 4 x 200lbs ÷ 259 ÷ 2,000 lbs =) 0.544 tons. Spikes weigh (5,632 lbs ÷ 2,000 lbs / ton =) 2.816 tons. Totaling the ironmongery we have 94.894 tons. I used two primary references to get these numbers to crunch. The Handlan-Buck Railroad, Miners, Machinists, and Lumber Mill Supplies catalog of 1918, Handlan-Buck Mfg. Co., Saint Louis, Missouri, pages 325-326, and Marshall Kirkman, Building and Repairing Railways, World Railway Publishing Company, London, © 1907, pages 680-681.

Note that locomotives and railroad cars will require even more. Here is the weight of materials in a steam locomotive John H. White Jr. American Locomotives, an Engineering History 1830-1880, © 1968, Johns Hopkins Press, Baltimore, Maryland, pages 474 and 476 quotes the following totals for various materials use in an 1865 Hinkley Locomotive Works 4-4-0 with sixty inch drivers and 15 x 24 inch cylinders. Note that the weights are the finished parts not the rough castings or rough bar stock weight. I calculated following totals. The engine has: brass 1,948 lbs., wood 2,718 lbs, wrought iron 29,627 lbs., and cast iron 19,785 lbs. used in 4,904 parts. The tender has: brass 83 lbs., wood 3,118 lbs., wrought iron 8,330 lbs., and cast iron 6,987 lbs. used in 1,366 parts. Total weight engine 54,078 lbs., total weight tender 18,518 lbs, and total weight engine and tender is 72,596 lbs. spread over a total of 6,270 parts. Thus the locomotive and tender contain: brass 2,031 lbs. 1.0155 tons wood 5,836 lbs or 2.918 tons, wrought iron 37,957 lbs or 18.9785 tons, cast iron 67,772 lbs. or 13.386 tons. Subistitue steel for wrought iron and you get the idea.

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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #9
Post by Joat42   » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:07 am

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pokermind wrote:Fellow posters we must remember how much steel railroads require for their tracks before blithely suggesting miles of railroad and that on Safehold steel production is a bottleneck.
...snip...
Poker

I do hope when they build railroads all over Safehold that they use a broad gauge, like Brunels 7.25 ft gauge.

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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #9
Post by n7axw   » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:17 am

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Joat42 wrote:
pokermind wrote:Fellow posters we must remember how much steel railroads require for their tracks before blithely suggesting miles of railroad and that on Safehold steel production is a bottleneck.
...snip...
Poker

I do hope when they build railroads all over Safehold that they use a broad gauge, like Brunels 7.25 ft gauge.


Given the quality of roads on Safehold, especially on the mainland which iirc are quite good, I wonder if we might not see busses and trucks first...

Don
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #9
Post by jgnfld   » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:48 am

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runsforcelery wrote:...I invite your attention to Nelson's pursuit of Villeneuve prior to Trafalgar. Privateers are a lot harder to blockade. They're smaller, faster, harder to spot, and completely capable of sailing in singletons rather than squadrons and still proving strategically effective.


I might suggest to posters a recent examination of commerce raiding published by the Navy War College for some info and ideas. Commerce Raiding: Historical Case Studies, 1755-2009 (Newport Papers Series, Number 40): Naval War College Press, Bruce A. Elleman, S. C. M. Paine which is available for free download at https://www.usnwc.edu/getattachment/3f9e1de9-f4a4-4119-8ff0-4eb3a256555c%2FNP_40Commerce-Web.pdf .

It contains more information than most would likely wish to know.
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #9
Post by lyonheart   » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:29 pm

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Hi HighJohn,

I'm sorry, I've used RR as an acronym for so long [50+ years] that I thought everyone knew what it was.

Usually I've spelled it out first, but if it was used recently in the news or advertisements [how 'green' a RR is etc] I assume people know what it means.

You notice RFC wasn't warm to the tactic? :D

L


Highjohn wrote:
lyonheart wrote:...to simply occupy all the ports with RR leading inland....



I sorry I know I'm being dense but "RR"?
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #9
Post by pablopinzone   » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:34 pm

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[snip]
Second, the convoy sailed from Tellesberg (well, Ithmyn), then to Emerald, where it picked up certain portions of its cargo which are being manufactured around Eraystor Bay (you may or may not find out what those portions were in the fullness of time)
[/snip]

More surprises to come. It will be toooo long a wait.
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #9
Post by Captain Igloo   » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:22 pm

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pokermind wrote:Fellow posters we must remember how much steel railroads require for their tracks before blithely suggesting miles of railroad and that on Safehold steel production is a bottleneck.

SNIP

Poker


BTW, the steam locomotive comprises two basic elements: the boiler and the running gear. It's the running gear that determines the speed and power of the final machine. Each railroad had a mechanical department whose purpose was to develop locomotives and equipment that was suited to its particular operations. Because of the need to tailor running gear and boilers to specific loads and speeds, there was a tremendous variety of different machines in use across the country. Each railroad had its own ideas on use of appliances, headlights, cowcatchers, and infinite other details. As a result, there was
no mistaking a Pennsy locomotive for one on the Santa Fe or Northern Pacific or - heaven forbid - the New York Central.

For example, the Belpair firebox was more or less the trademark of a PRR locomotive. The boiler used on its H-10-class 2-8-0 was also used on the commuter-service G-5 4-6-0 and the very fast 80-inch-drivered E-6 4-4-2. The boiler designed in 1914 and applied to 425 K-4 4-6-2s was also used on 574 Ll-class freight 2-8-2s. Why? Because the PRR declared itself the "standard railroad of the world" (because, internally, it indeed was heavily standardized - and saved a lot of money this way).
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #9
Post by SCC   » Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:10 am

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[quote="pokermind"]Fellow posters we must remember how much steel railroads require for their tracks before blithely suggesting miles of railroad and that on Safehold steel production is a bottleneck.[quote]

Railroads where mentioned as part of a comparison to a RL situation, we weren't talking about them
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