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***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Trials

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:03 pm

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PeterZ wrote:Something is broken in the whole temple. Most of the IC have noted that the total amount of change that has occurred in less than three decades has been massive. That sort of sweeping change should have triggered something, yet hasn't. Why? One might conclude that whatever Schueler did to set up the Key and his lineage of guardians to use the key is part of why there has been no response.


It depends on the intelligence of whatever is doing the monitoring. Intelligent, yes, it should have noted the changes. Something robotic that only watches for a violation of the limits, it wouldn't react. There also could be something intelligent but asleep that's only waken when the robot says there's an issue.


And for a totally different possibility: Perhaps the thing under the temple is actually a **friendly** AI. The changes reached the point it was activated, we are seeing it's first move.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:01 pm

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Loren Pechtel wrote:
PeterZ wrote:Something is broken in the whole temple. Most of the IC have noted that the total amount of change that has occurred in less than three decades has been massive. That sort of sweeping change should have triggered something, yet hasn't. Why? One might conclude that whatever Schueler did to set up the Key and his lineage of guardians to use the key is part of why there has been no response.


It depends on the intelligence of whatever is doing the monitoring. Intelligent, yes, it should have noted the changes. Something robotic that only watches for a violation of the limits, it wouldn't react. There also could be something intelligent but asleep that's only waken when the robot says there's an issue.


And for a totally different possibility: Perhaps the thing under the temple is actually a **friendly** AI. The changes reached the point it was activated, we are seeing it's first move.

I would rather believe Schueler has parts of the SSK executing a broader plan against Chihiro.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by DirtyCajun2992   » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:57 pm

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Hello everyone. I was recently introduced to David Weber through the Safehold series and promptly binged the entire series twice before the newest edition came out. I have since reread the entire series again including TFT.

Having read through to about page 23 of this thread. I personally am on the “its The real Schuyler” but I am also leaning toward Schuyler beating Operation Androcles to the punch in a way.

First off the key. The key is mentioned numerous times since its introduction. And I have no doubt that Owl and our evil plump little mostly dead mastermind gave up on it. I am even more convinced of this because of two things. Nahrman (sp, forgive me. I am posting from a phone and am going to commit spelling genocide on safehold names before this is over) doesn’t let things go... period... he literally can’t, whether it is trying to find a way out of his virtual cage to olyvia, or to any puzzle that crosses his path. And he literally has all the time in the world to work on it. We have also seen the author state things as impossible (Merlin’s early attempts to create another pica come to mind) that are later written in as happening with a little help from nahrman (Nemue Gahrvai is born) usually through research. I think Nahrman cracked the key in some way to get at that enormous encrypted file in it. And thus possibly gaining the knowledge/information to make Operation Androcles viable. That was literally my first thought when I read it the first time in TFT.

The second observation is more of a question (probably hashed out in detail) but I believe the angel present in lake view when the nuke went off was Chahiro. Originally, I thought it was Schuyler, but I don’t think that anymore. There are clues in that exchange as to the timing of the nuke vs the war against the fallen. When he is talking to the priest and the Adam (forgive me, I can’t remember their names) he stated that the world was already at war. I think laghorn, Chichiro, and Schueler has forwarning, or had engaged in early skirmishes before the nuke.

I am the new guy, be gentle :D
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by WeberFan   » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:56 pm

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DirtyCajun2992 wrote:Hello everyone. I was recently introduced to David Weber through the Safehold series and promptly binged the entire series twice before the newest edition came out. I have since reread the entire series again including TFT.

Having read through to about page 23 of this thread. I personally am on the “its The real Schuyler” but I am also leaning toward Schuyler beating Operation Androcles to the punch in a way.

First off the key. The key is mentioned numerous times since its introduction. And I have no doubt that Owl and our evil plump little mostly dead mastermind gave up on it. I am even more convinced of this because of two things. Nahrman (sp, forgive me. I am posting from a phone and am going to commit spelling genocide on safehold names before this is over) doesn’t let things go... period... he literally can’t, whether it is trying to find a way out of his virtual cage to olyvia, or to any puzzle that crosses his path. And he literally has all the time in the world to work on it. We have also seen the author state things as impossible (Merlin’s early attempts to create another pica come to mind) that are later written in as happening with a little help from nahrman (Nemue Gahrvai is born) usually through research. I think Nahrman cracked the key in some way to get at that enormous encrypted file in it. And thus possibly gaining the knowledge/information to make Operation Androcles viable. That was literally my first thought when I read it the first time in TFT.

The second observation is more of a question (probably hashed out in detail) but I believe the angel present in lake view when the nuke went off was Chahiro. Originally, I thought it was Schuyler, but I don’t think that anymore. There are clues in that exchange as to the timing of the nuke vs the war against the fallen. When he is talking to the priest and the Adam (forgive me, I can’t remember their names) he stated that the world was already at war. I think laghorn, Chichiro, and Schueler has forwarning, or had engaged in early skirmishes before the nuke.

I am the new guy, be gentle :D

Welcome!

First virtual beer is on me...

Gentle? We're always gentle :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nobody gets worked up around here :roll: ...
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by ssl4000g   » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:29 pm

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Page 459, hardcover;
Rock Point and Olyver are discussing the advantages of oil fired boilers and their hope that other realms will see the benefit.
Rock Point, "That probably means most of the potential competitors out there will stick with coal even if they figure out the advantages, because they know they have an assured supply of it, which isn't the case with this newfangled'oil-fired' machinery. But some of them may not stick it out if we feed them the word on all the wonderful advantages it'll give us. In which case-" his smile turned wicked "-they'll have to build their own oil industry, and think how that will contribute to the Nahrmahn Plan."

W
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by DirtyCajun2992   » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:23 pm

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ssl4000g wrote:Page 459, hardcover;
Rock Point and Olyver are discussing the advantages of oil fired boilers and their hope that other realms will see the benefit.
Rock Point, "That probably means most of the potential competitors out there will stick with coal even if they figure out the advantages, because they know they have an assured supply of it, which isn't the case with this newfangled'oil-fired' machinery. But some of them may not stick it out if we feed them the word on all the wonderful advantages it'll give us. In which case-" his smile turned wicked "-they'll have to build their own oil industry, and think how that will contribute to the Nahrmahn Plan."

W


Now there is a thought right there...
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by AineSabine   » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:34 pm

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I just finished reading TFT and this thread of posts. My personal opinion is that it is NOT the IC that has done this. Though I don't believe there is enough evidence either way.I

That being said, I will point at a few things that sway my opinion.

1) The first is Merlins and the IC's continual refusal to pretend or outright lie about anything regarding the faith. I believe having Owl or anyone pretend to be Schueler would make Merlin very uncomfortable.

2) The second is more the issue for me. At the Cathedral of the Holy Archangel Schueler, non of the attendees seem surprised at the special effects used for "Schueler" to appear. They were surprised at "Schueler". This means that there is a high-tech presence in the Cathedral. Having Owl or the "Albans" run the risk to emplace equipment to simulate this event in an environment where they could be caught by the tech already there would be too high a risk in my mind.

Also, I just re-read the relevant sections of HFQ and I agree that there isn't enough information in Saint Khody's journal to pull this off.

This is only my opinion and not meant to sway anyone else's opinion.

Aine
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Theemile   » Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:51 pm

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DirtyCajun2992 wrote:
ssl4000g wrote:Page 459, hardcover;
Rock Point and Olyver are discussing the advantages of oil fired boilers and their hope that other realms will see the benefit.
Rock Point, "That probably means most of the potential competitors out there will stick with coal even if they figure out the advantages, because they know they have an assured supply of it, which isn't the case with this newfangled'oil-fired' machinery. But some of them may not stick it out if we feed them the word on all the wonderful advantages it'll give us. In which case-" his smile turned wicked "-they'll have to build their own oil industry, and think how that will contribute to the Nahrmahn Plan."

W



Now there is a thought right there...


This is the reason the British went back to coal fired Dreadnoughts after experimenting with Oil designs, even though they knew the advantages of oil. In the end, It's all about strategic resources.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by PlaysWithBees   » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:42 am

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Loren Pechtel wrote:
PlaysWithBees wrote:Regarding an underwater base.

The greatest consequence of an OBS strike, would be the resulting mega-tsunami. Simple large earthquakes have caused significant waves to cross the pacific and do significant damage on the other side.

The lateral forces resulting from such a bombardment as is being proposed coupled with smaller oceans on Safehold, would be like multiple Yucatán-level meteor impacts. Anything within miles of the surrounding coast.... ALL of the coast.... would be washed off the map! Add in the cubic kilometers of vaporized sea water in the atmosphere screwing up the climate patterns and you are looking potentially at an extinction event that likely would include humanity as well as much of the flora and fauna on the planet.


Why would you get a tsunami? The OBS doesn't cause one mega-hit, it causes a whole bunch of smaller hits--you'll get many waves, not big waves.


Whether you drop a 1 ton boulder or 1 ton of gravel into a lake, you still get a large wave. The OBS is designed specifically as a bombardment platform. It is dropping high Kinetic Energy (KE) projectiles on the planet meant to make large holes. Even if you intended to sequence smaller strikes, you would still need enough energy concentrated in a small area to penetrate to the underwater base and and any additional shielding on it. On impact the KE of the strike will go laterally as well as following the direction of impact. Water will, by necessity, be displaced laterally resulting inevitably in tsunamis as the shockwaves approach land.

Additionally, the destruction of the base itself will cause additional displacement of water as walls and roofs collapse, industrial systems flood and fail, etc. Some of the largest tsunamis in history were caused by landslides under or into the water.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by isaac_newton   » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:46 pm

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Well - revisting Safehold after a while and I find this thread is still v active.

I have to say that I just can't make up my mind.

I read one post and it is very cogent, I swing that way. I read another thread, equally cogent, of the opposite persuasion and I swing that way...

Well, all I can say is that RFC has done a brilliant job on this one. Normally after several months discussion the questions are resolved, but not this time!
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