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Oh By The Way...

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Oh By The Way...
Post by WeberFan   » Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:01 pm

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Since early in the series, we saw that Schulerites who were members of the Inquisition were to be killed on sight. Hektor did this when he rescued Iris and Daviyn.

Here's the kicker - was that interdict ever rescinded?

Must have been (but there's no textev), because at the end of AtSoT we hear that Archbishop Staipan Maik wasn't able to accompany Earl Thirsk but expected to join them after another hour and that they shouldn't hold supper for him (at the Charisian embassy?).

Maik was the Dohlaran Navy Intendant, personally selected for that position by Rayno and Clyntahn, and was definitely a Schulerite and a member of the Inquistion.

Maybe he got a waiver?
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Re: Oh By The Way...
Post by n7axw   » Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:42 pm

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WeberFan wrote:Since early in the series, we saw that Schulerites who were members of the Inquisition were to be killed on sight. Hektor did this when he rescued Iris and Daviyn.

Here's the kicker - was that interdict ever rescinded?

Must have been (but there's no textev), because at the end of AtSoT we hear that Archbishop Staipan Maik wasn't able to accompany Earl Thirsk but expected to join them after another hour and that they shouldn't hold supper for him (at the Charisian embassy?).

Maik was the Dohlaran Navy Intendant, personally selected for that position by Rayno and Clyntahn, and was definitely a Schulerite and a member of the Inquistion.

Maybe he got a waiver?


No, that decree was never rescinded. And yes, Maik was still formally an inquisitor at the end of the story. However he has been using his position as intendant to protect Thirst all along. And after the incident with Thirsk'so family he works to undermine Clyntahn'so position in Dohlar. So yes, he gets a pass, although there is no record that it is ever formalized.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Oh By The Way...
Post by ZVar   » Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:50 pm

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There always was exceptions. Even from when the order first went out. Look at Paityr Wylsynn as an example.

As to the dinner, I'm unsure of the timing, but didn't the Church disband the Schulerats and thus all the Inquisitors by that time?
Langhorns are doing the church policing now.
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Re: Oh By The Way...
Post by Bluesqueak   » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:25 pm

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WeberFan wrote:Since early in the series, we saw that Schulerites who were members of the Inquisition were to be killed on sight. Hektor did this when he rescued Iris and Daviyn.

Here's the kicker - was that interdict ever rescinded?

Must have been (but there's no textev), because at the end of AtSoT we hear that Archbishop Staipan Maik wasn't able to accompany Earl Thirsk but expected to join them after another hour and that they shouldn't hold supper for him (at the Charisian embassy?).

Maik was the Dohlaran Navy Intendant, personally selected for that position by Rayno and Clyntahn, and was definitely a Schulerite and a member of the Inquistion.

Maybe he got a waiver?


That confused me too, until I realised that Intendants and Inquisitors aren't the same thing. Intendants really are more like patent assessors; their job is to say whether or not a process or machine strays into prohibited areas. Inquisitors are the Stasi, the KGB, the secret police.

So while Maik is an Intendant with an oath to the head of his Order (the Grand Inquisitor), he isn't a kill-on-sight Inquisitor.
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Re: Oh By The Way...
Post by DrakBibliophile   » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:01 am

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For that matter, there was an Inquisitor in one of the Republic Cities captured by the Charisan forces.

He was mentioned by name by the Charisan commander when talking to the Temple Loyalist Bishop as "having a free pass".

Of course, the Inquisitor was known to have been helping people escape from the Inquisition Death Camps.

I suspect that in practice there wasn't a "kill on sight order" for all members of the Inquisition.

It depended on "where the Inquisitor was operating".

Inquisitors operating with the Temple armies or associated with the Death Camps were likely "Guilty Until Proven Innocent".

But any where else, the Inquisitor would be judged (often informally) to see if he deserved death.

There was strong evidence that the Inquisitor that Hektor killed was guilty of murder. IE He had killed the officer of the Temple Loyalist troops that trapped Iris and Daviyn's party. Hektor only killed that Inquisitor after he realized what the Inquisitor had done.


n7axw wrote:
WeberFan wrote:Since early in the series, we saw that Schulerites who were members of the Inquisition were to be killed on sight. Hektor did this when he rescued Iris and Daviyn.

Here's the kicker - was that interdict ever rescinded?

Must have been (but there's no textev), because at the end of AtSoT we hear that Archbishop Staipan Maik wasn't able to accompany Earl Thirsk but expected to join them after another hour and that they shouldn't hold supper for him (at the Charisian embassy?).

Maik was the Dohlaran Navy Intendant, personally selected for that position by Rayno and Clyntahn, and was definitely a Schulerite and a member of the Inquistion.

Maybe he got a waiver?


No, that decree was never rescinded. And yes, Maik was still formally an inquisitor at the end of the story. However he has been using his position as intendant to protect Thirst all along. And after the incident with Thirsk'so family he works to undermine Clyntahn'so position in Dohlar. So yes, he gets a pass, although there is no record that it is ever formalized.

Don

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Re: Oh By The Way...
Post by evilauthor   » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:31 am

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IIRC, the "Kill all Inquisitors" decree has always had the caveat that the Inquisitor had to be a "true servant of Clyntahn".

Which in practical terms is basically a license for Charisian to kill any Inquisitor they felt had no redeeming value, but gave them an out to spare any Inquisitor that they felt didn't deserve to be killed out of hand because they showed signs of decency.
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Re: Oh By The Way...
Post by n7axw   » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:58 pm

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Intendants have for the most part been inquisitors. There have been some exceptions. Bishop Militant Goryk's (sp) intendant wasn't even a Schuelerite let alone an inquisitor.

I've wondered about the mass executions of intendants upon the surrender of Temple armies. Rather than imposing the question or the punishment they were primarily serving as chaplains responsible for morale and keeping their charges loyal to the Temple, unlike other inquisitors who were fereting out heresy or running the camps.

We know that the Order of Schueler has been excluded from establishing policy for or directing the inquisition. But we have no textev to suggest that Schuelerites are no longer inquisitors. That would basicly mean starting from scratch since up to this point all inquisitors were Schuelerites.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Oh By The Way...
Post by evilauthor   » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:10 pm

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n7axw wrote:Intendants have for the most part been inquisitors. There have been some exceptions. Bishop Militant Goryk's (sp) intendant wasn't even a Schuelerite let alone an inquisitor.

I've wondered about the mass executions of intendants upon the surrender of Temple armies. Rather than imposing the question or the punishment they were primarily serving as chaplains responsible for morale and keeping their charges loyal to the Temple, unlike other inquisitors who were fereting out heresy or running the camps.

We know that the Order of Schueler has been excluded from establishing policy for or directing the inquisition. But we have no textev to suggest that Schuelerites are no longer inquisitors. That would basicly mean starting from scratch since up to this point all inquisitors were Schuelerites.

Don

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Between the "true servant of Clyntahn" out I mentioned and "Seijinn" intel, I'm pretty sure the allied armies are approaching executing Inquisitors entirely on a case by case basis and not indiscriminately massacring every Inquisitor just based on their employment alone.

Hektor for example didn't just execute that Inquisitor on sight. He took the time to establish that yes, the guy was an Inquisitor, and he ALSO took time to establish not just to himself, but to all sides present that the Inquisitor just murdered one of his own in order to trick his troops into killing Irys and Daivin.

By the same token, Inquisitors that showed decency, that tried to preserve the lives of innocents under their care DESPITE orders to the contrary from their superiors tended to be spared. And usually the decision to spare them was based on Seijinn intelligence reports.
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Re: Oh By The Way...
Post by n7axw   » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:57 am

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evilauthor wrote:
n7axw wrote:Intendants have for the most part been inquisitors. There have been some exceptions. Bishop Militant Goryk's (sp) intendant wasn't even a Schuelerite let alone an inquisitor.

I've wondered about the mass executions of intendants upon the surrender of Temple armies. Rather than imposing the question or the punishment they were primarily serving as chaplains responsible for morale and keeping their charges loyal to the Temple, unlike other inquisitors who were fereting out heresy or running the camps.

We know that the Order of Schueler has been excluded from establishing policy for or directing the inquisition. But we have no textev to suggest that Schuelerites are no longer inquisitors. That would basicly mean starting from scratch since up to this point all inquisitors were Schuelerites.

Don

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Between the "true servant of Clyntahn" out I mentioned and "Seijinn" intel, I'm pretty sure the allied armies are approaching executing Inquisitors entirely on a case by case basis and not indiscriminately massacring every Inquisitor just based on their employment alone.

Hektor for example didn't just execute that Inquisitor on sight. He took the time to establish that yes, the guy was an Inquisitor, and he ALSO took time to establish not just to himself, but to all sides present that the Inquisitor just murdered one of his own in order to trick his troops into killing Irys and Daivin.

By the same token, Inquisitors that showed decency, that tried to preserve the lives of innocents under their care DESPITE orders to the contrary from their superiors tended to be spared. And usually the decision to spare them was based on Seijinn intelligence reports.


Yeah, there have been exceptions. But remember the aftermath of allied victories on the Daiven ending with the destruction of the army of Glacierhart. Remember Trumyn Stohnar's victory over the army of the Sahlman (sp) Gap and what happened when that escaping column was run down with those intendants who were sent along to escape Stohnar's army.

The bottom line here is that the policy of killing captured intendants was pretty uniformly carried out, even though, as you say, there were exceptions.

Don

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Re: Oh By The Way...
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:50 am

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Indeed so, Don. Recall that Archbishop Maikel stipulated in he sermon establishing the policy, he stipulated those Inquisitors that willingly serve Clyntahn. I recall his also mentioning that Inquisitors that stopped serving Clyntahn would be spared. Those caveats sound like guidelines for the local authorities to act using their discretion.

So, if the Inquisitor actually serves Clyntahn, he dies. The best example is the Inquisitor that refused to kill the Charisian POWs on the ship Sir Dunkin captured. That Inquisitor was not a sadist but was honestly serving Clyntahn. This compared to the sadist bastard on the other ship.

I believe the rule of thumb had been to kill all Inquisitors unless there was clear evidence that the Inquisitor rejected his orders somehow.
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