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68% missing

"Hell's Gate" and "Hell Hath No Fury", by David, Linda Evans, and Joelle Presby, take the clash of science and magic to a whole new dimension...join us in a friendly discussion of this engrossing series!
Re: 68% missing
Post by n7axw   » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:31 am

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tonyz wrote:
n7axw wrote:I'm wondering if Zindel survives or if this is the point where it falls on Andrin's shoulders.


It seems to me that if David intended to kill him off at this point, he wouldn't have needed to have the young Healer apprentice girl save him - she could have saved Andrin instead. (And RFC could have saved the revelation about the Winged Crown until Andrin's coronation, too). Zindel's survival really threw me for a loop, since all the foreshadowing was pointing to Andrin succeeding as empress.


Even if Zindel does survive, it does not mean that he will be capable of continuing as emperor, in which case Andrin becomes empress after all.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: 68% missing
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:36 am

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n7axw wrote:I'm wondering if Zindel survives or if this is the point where it falls on Andrin's shoulders.
tonyz wrote:It seems to me that if David intended to kill him off at this point, he wouldn't have needed to have the young Healer apprentice girl save him - she could have saved Andrin instead. (And RFC could have saved the revelation about the Winged Crown until Andrin's coronation, too). Zindel's survival really threw me for a loop, since all the foreshadowing was pointing to Andrin succeeding as empress.
n7axw wrote:Even if Zindel does survive, it does not mean that he will be capable of continuing as emperor, in which case Andrin becomes empress after all.

Don

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One suspects that Andrin won't assume the mantle of Empress unless Zindel's recovery leaves him nearly vegetative or completely immobile. The Empire is too young and Chava is too greedy for the other nations to be comfortable with Andrin as the Empress.

Now, she may effectively be Empress, but I suspect that Zindel will remain Emperor and have Andrin act as his proxy in her capacity as Crown Princess when ever possible. She gets to gradually assume the role of Empress while the Empire remains comfortably under Zindel's rule.
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Re: 68% missing
Post by n7axw   » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:11 pm

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PeterZ wrote:
n7axw wrote:I'm wondering if Zindel survives or if this is the point where it falls on Andrin's shoulders.
tonyz wrote:It seems to me that if David intended to kill him off at this point, he wouldn't have needed to have the young Healer apprentice girl save him - she could have saved Andrin instead. (And RFC could have saved the revelation about the Winged Crown until Andrin's coronation, too). Zindel's survival really threw me for a loop, since all the foreshadowing was pointing to Andrin succeeding as empress.
n7axw wrote:Even if Zindel does survive, it does not mean that he will be capable of continuing as emperor, in which case Andrin becomes empress after all.

Don

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One suspects that Andrin won't assume the mantle of Empress unless Zindel's recovery leaves him nearly vegetative or completely immobile. The Empire is too young and Chava is too greedy for the other nations to be comfortable with Andrin as the Empress.

Now, she may effectively be Empress, but I suspect that Zindel will remain Emperor and have Andrin act as his proxy in her capacity as Crown Princess when ever possible. She gets to gradually assume the role of Empress while the Empire remains comfortably under Zindel's rule.


I doubt that Zindel is vegetative. For one thing he was responding nonverbally at the time of his injury. What I think is that even if he recovers partially, it will soon be apparent that he is no longer up to the job in which case, the burden will fall on Andrin's shoulders...either formally or informally.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: 68% missing
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:26 pm

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n7axw wrote:I'm wondering if Zindel survives or if this is the point where it falls on Andrin's shoulders.
tonyz wrote:It seems to me that if David intended to kill him off at this point, he wouldn't have needed to have the young Healer apprentice girl save him - she could have saved Andrin instead. (And RFC could have saved the revelation about the Winged Crown until Andrin's coronation, too). Zindel's survival really threw me for a loop, since all the foreshadowing was pointing to Andrin succeeding as empress.
n7axw wrote:Even if Zindel does survive, it does not mean that he will be capable of continuing as emperor, in which case Andrin becomes empress after all.

Don

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PeterZ wrote:One suspects that Andrin won't assume the mantle of Empress unless Zindel's recovery leaves him nearly vegetative or completely immobile. The Empire is too young and Chava is too greedy for the other nations to be comfortable with Andrin as the Empress.

Now, she may effectively be Empress, but I suspect that Zindel will remain Emperor and have Andrin act as his proxy in her capacity as Crown Princess when ever possible. She gets to gradually assume the role of Empress while the Empire remains comfortably under Zindel's rule.
n7axw wrote:I doubt that Zindel is vegetative. For one thing he was responding nonverbally at the time of his injury. What I think is that even if he recovers partially, it will soon be apparent that he is no longer up to the job in which case, the burden will fall on Andrin's shoulders...either formally or informally.

Don

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Agreed. Andrin will act as Zindel's surrogate, but not as Empress immediately.

I do think that Chava will succeed in killing Zindel before the story arc is completed.
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Re: 68% missing
Post by n7axw   » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:13 pm

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Possibly so. But Chava is really vulnerable himself at this point. Since Andrin survived, it will be believed that the Senechal was behind the assassination attempts, but it will become apparent that he was a cutout now that he is dead. That being true, there is really only one primary suspect left...Chava. And if Drindel the shark caller is aoprehended and implicates Chava, things get dicey for Chava. Even without Drindel, Chava is the primary suspect.

That leaves us with the question if Chava survives...

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: 68% missing
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:00 am

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Chava can't survive. He is too far out on the limb with respect to his actions against the Sharonan Empire. He can't stop now and all of Sharona will be setting up against him. If he moves further against Sharona's efforts in the war against Arcana, he will get a unified opposition against him. A violent and unrelenting opposition that will destroy his empire. Chava is doomed if he continues and he is too far into his schemes to stop.

His only hope is to succeed in killing the Emperor and Andrin while someone else takes the complete blame. That scapegoat has to appear guilty enough to prevent Sharona from galvanizing against him. As it stands with both the Emperor and Andrin alive, he is lost. Andrin won't stop until she discovers who tried to kill he family, neither will the Emperor. There are too many loose ends for Chava to evade discovery and he cannot come out in the open without alienating the rest of Sharona completely since the Imperial family still lives.
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Re: 68% missing
Post by n7axw   » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:47 am

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PeterZ wrote:Chava can't survive. He is too far out on the limb with respect to his actions against the Sharonan Empire. He can't stop now and all of Sharona will be setting up against him. If he moves further against Sharona's efforts in the war against Arcana, he will get a unified opposition against him. A violent and unrelenting opposition that will destroy his empire. Chava is doomed if he continues and he is too far into his schemes to stop.


Agreed. But what do you think is his next act?

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: 68% missing
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:55 am

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n7axw wrote:
PeterZ wrote:Chava can't survive. He is too far out on the limb with respect to his actions against the Sharonan Empire. He can't stop now and all of Sharona will be setting up against him. If he moves further against Sharona's efforts in the war against Arcana, he will get a unified opposition against him. A violent and unrelenting opposition that will destroy his empire. Chava is doomed if he continues and he is too far into his schemes to stop.


Agreed. But what do you think is his next act?

Don

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Depends on how many more books David and Joelle plan on in this arc. If book 4 is it before the introduction of another polity some decades down the road, then Chava gives up and offers to cease any future efforts. Sharona can put up a unified effort and progress further down the Arcanan chain.

Our authorial dynamic duo my squeeze out another book by having Chava fight to the end. This leaves the Sharonan Empire unable to to move beyond Hell's Gate as they mop up Chava's Empire.

My gut tells me the second option is most likely, whether we get another book or not.
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Re: 68% missing
Post by n7axw   » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:58 pm

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I think that my gut agrees with yours. I don't see Chava quiting. I rather doubt that he manages to assasinate Zindell... security will be too heavy for that. But he might see an opportunity to assume control of the capitol in hope of taking the royal family with that missing 68%...

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: 68% missing
Post by Eagleeye   » Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:58 pm

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PeterZ wrote:
Depends on how many more books David and Joelle plan on in this arc. If book 4 is it before the introduction of another polity some decades down the road, then Chava gives up and offers to cease any future efforts. Sharona can put up a unified effort and progress further down the Arcanan chain.

Our authorial dynamic duo my squeeze out another book by having Chava fight to the end. This leaves the Sharonan Empire unable to to move beyond Hell's Gate as they mop up Chava's Empire.

My gut tells me the second option is most likely, whether we get another book or not.


I would bet for 2 books more. Ok, David is known for putting regularely 250.000 to 300.000 words into a novel; but somehow I don't think even that much text would be enough to cover events in both Sharona and Arcana to a point he and Joelle find suitable to start a new story arc with the 5th book in the series.

And maybe - just maybe - he will limit his future engagement into the series to only deliver the exposes for Joelle, who'll do the actual writing then. After all, regarding his health issues and the needs of his family, Sharon could be able to ... convince him to take some steam off his cauldron, don't you think? And it's not as if he didn't have already enough books and series to care for - with Safehold, Bahzell and the Honorverse.
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