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When and Why Did Zindel Agree to That? [Sample Soilers]

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When and Why Did Zindel Agree to That? [Sample Soilers]
Post by SCC   » Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:59 am

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OK, RTH Chapter 8, available in the book sample over on the Baen website has THIS nugget:

The terms of the original treaty called for a Princess of Uromathia to wed the Crown Prince of Ternathia. With Janaki dead, Chava had accepted the modification of Prince of Uromathia and Crown Princess.


Now last thing I remember the situation seemed to be everyone was assuming that with Janaki's death Andrin is to marry a Prince of Uromathia, so when did that change take place?

Secondly why did Zindel agree to it? The prior situation was much better, Andrin would marry one of Chava's daughters, who would abuse Andrin and there's only a chance she'll betray them, where a son will do both of those things. As a bonus it would obviously exclude any member of Chava's family from the Imperial line of succession. And Chava would have no grounds to complain, he was getting EXACTLY what he wanted.
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Re: When and Why Did Zindel Agree to That? [Sample Soilers]
Post by Howard T. Map-addict   » Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:22 pm

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Andrin marry a *daughter* of Chava? ???

Apparently Sharona is a world in which a "marriage"
between two women is unthinkable.

Please remember that HG & HHNF were written in 2006,
when the most recent elections (2004) had specifically
outlawed gay marriages in about half of the states.
The Republicans had used that issue to increase their
own turnout, possibly deciding the Presidential election.
The political change in the USA in the past ten years,
on this issue, has been just about 180 degrees.

HTM, Pointy-Headed Liberal

SCC wrote:OK, RTH Chapter 8, available in the book sample over on the Baen website has THIS nugget:

The terms of the original treaty called for a Princess of Uromathia to wed the Crown Prince of Ternathia. With Janaki dead, Chava had accepted the modification of Prince of Uromathia and Crown Princess.


Now last thing I remember the situation seemed to be everyone was assuming that with Janaki's death Andrin is to marry a Prince of Uromathia, so when did that change take place?

Secondly why did Zindel agree to it? The prior situation was much better, Andrin would marry one of Chava's daughters, who would abuse Andrin and there's only a chance she'll betray them, where a son will do both of those things. As a bonus it would obviously exclude any member of Chava's family from the Imperial line of succession. And Chava would have no grounds to complain, he was getting EXACTLY what he wanted.
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Re: When and Why Did Zindel Agree to That? [Sample Soilers]
Post by SCC   » Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:31 am

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You seriously expect me to believe that with more then 4,000 years of history there's NEVER been a culture that was excepting on homosexuality on Sharonia, despite the fact that it's a recent thing in RL?
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Re: When and Why Did Zindel Agree to That? [Sample Soilers]
Post by n7axw   » Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:48 am

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SCC wrote:You seriously expect me to believe that with more then 4,000 years of history there's NEVER been a culture that was excepting on homosexuality on Sharonia, despite the fact that it's a recent thing in RL?


Whatever the case may be about homosexuality, the point about Janaki marrying one of Chava Busar's daughters or Andrin marrying one of Chava's sons was to produce an heir to the throne that would unite both imperial houses in a ruler who would carry the blood of both in one family.

When Janaki was killed, the agreement was simply modified to accommodate Andrin who became the heir to the imperial throne. There is no suggestion of homosexuality in any of this.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: When and Why Did Zindel Agree to That? [Sample Soilers]
Post by SCC   » Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:00 am

SCC
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n7axw wrote:Whatever the case may be about homosexuality, the point about Janaki marrying one of Chava Busar's daughters or Andrin marrying one of Chava's sons was to produce an heir to the throne that would unite both imperial houses in a ruler who would carry the blood of both in one family.

When Janaki was killed, the agreement was simply modified to accommodate Andrin who became the heir to the imperial throne. There is no suggestion of homosexuality in any of this.


Given that the wording of the treaty section acknowledges that Janaki could/would father children outside of that marriage and that children from the marriage would take precedence in the order of secession I see no reason to believe that that marriage HAS to produce children.

And I made a mistake in my previous post, it should have ended with "despite the fact that anti-homosexuality is a recent thing in RL?"
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Re: When and Why Did Zindel Agree to That? [Sample Soilers]
Post by BrightSoul   » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:07 pm

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OK, this is getting ridiculous. Dynastic marriage is a binding of two BLOODLINES. Gender identity and sexuality don't enter the equation. Lets keep in mind that there is no science today that can successfully produce a viable zygote from two female eggs. The Sharonan techbase is at best WWI era tech (no aircraft). On top of that where's your respect for Andrin? Is she gay? Would you attempt to force her to be gay?

Chava didn't realize that the Language used in the treaty had left a potential opening to exclude his sons. So the curveball caught him off guard.
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Re: When and Why Did Zindel Agree to That? [Sample Soilers]
Post by n7axw   » Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:42 pm

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SCC wrote:
n7axw wrote:Whatever the case may be about homosexuality, the point about Janaki marrying one of Chava Busar's daughters or Andrin marrying one of Chava's sons was to produce an heir to the throne that would unite both imperial houses in a ruler who would carry the blood of both in one family.

When Janaki was killed, the agreement was simply modified to accommodate Andrin who became the heir to the imperial throne. There is no suggestion of homosexuality in any of this.


Given that the wording of the treaty section acknowledges that Janaki could/would father children outside of that marriage and that children from the marriage would take precedence in the order of secession I see no reason to believe that that marriage HAS to produce children.

And I made a mistake in my previous post, it should have ended with "despite the fact that anti-homosexuality is a recent thing in RL?"


I am uncertain what you are referring to with your comment here, but here is the relavant section of the treaty...

"Article Two, Section Three, Subsection Fourteen:
It shall be agreed that the Heir to the co-joined Thrones of the Empires of Ternathia and Sharona shall, within three months of the ratification of this Act of Unification by all Parties, wed a Royal Princess of Uromathia, and that the Issue of this Marriage shall in perpetuity displace the claim of any other Individual, Dynasty, or Nation upon the crown of the Empire of Sharona."


Two things seem obvious here. One is that the marriage is heterosexual since issue is to be expected of it. When Prince Janaki was killed, the gender was flipped to accomodate the reality that Andrin had become the heir.

Secondly, the heir to the throne must be the issue of this marriage and not the byblow of the philandering by the Prince.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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