Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests

Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD

"Hell's Gate" and "Hell Hath No Fury", by David, Linda Evans, and Joelle Presby, take the clash of science and magic to a whole new dimension...join us in a friendly discussion of this engrossing series!
Re: Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD
Post by n7axw   » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:25 am

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5997
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

brnicholas wrote:
n7axw wrote:
If RFC wants to write a story of peacemaking between Sharona and Arcana, he has planted the seeds for the story line to go in that direction. Neither side really wanted the war to start with the exception of the rogue element within the Arcanan military. Should Sharona come to understand that the government in Portalus is different than the Arcanans they have been dealing with and that they would treat with Sharona in good faith, I think Sharona would probably be willing to take the opportunity.

This is where the theme with Velvelig and his mixed party of Arcanans and Sharonians comes in. Sharona will even have the diplomat who helped mul Gurthak set up the mess in custody. This could turn out a turning point in the plot if our authors go in that direction.

Don


-


True, but he has also planted lots of statements about public anger constraining politicians to do things they don't want to do. I suspect that you are not giving those statements enough weight. I'll toss a couple of quotes below as examples of what I am talking about.

Nicholas

HG CH17 100 Jasek to 500 Klian wrote:Second, and maybe even more important, I'm afraid that if any additional shots are fired, they'll cinch the certainty of open warfare. I'm talking politics, not military protocol, Sir. We need a team of trained ambassadors, and it's going to take time to bring them down the chain. Our next meeting with these people has to be peaceful, Sir, or we will be looking at war. A long, potentially disastrous, nasty war.


HG CH30 Andrin to Herself wrote:No single event in the entire history of Sharona had ever hit home like this one. Andrin knew that it worried her father deeply. Zindel chan Calirath was no more immune to outrage and fury than anyone else, but he was Emperor of Ternathia. He had to think beyond the outrage, beyond the madness of the moment, and the blast furnace anger and hatred—and fear—sweeping through his home universe threatened to severely limit his own options and choices.


HHNF CH34 Zindel to Kinlafia wrote:"They've truly done it this time," he said harshly. "First, Shaylar's murder. Now this . . . this treachery and the murder of my son. The heir to the throne. The whole of Sharona is going to explode in fury. Any possible hope we ever had for stopping this insanity is gone forever. Whether we're ready for it or not, whether we want it or not, we're in a fight for our very survival"


There was never any question about this. However anger can be met with admission of guilt, apology and reparations.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
Top
Re: Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:51 am

PeterZ
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 6432
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:11 pm
Location: Colorado

Of course they can, Don. BUT where's the literary artistry in that? Where is the pathos? Where is the humanity in all our imperfect glory?

Consider the last thoughts of this story arc leaving the reader with Arcana and Sharona each seeing the other as existential threats. Some politicians might suspect this is false, but the vast majority of the population do not. Each is prepared to wage what it perceives as a war of survival. Each side has POWs to provide information about the other side. Each side begins a generational war that the reader KNOWs is unnecessary. Heck, there might even be clandestine relations between the two sides as Gadriel, Jasak, Jathmar and Shaylar try to bridge the gap of POVs.

Velvig's Arcanan saviors may be cast as traitors by enough of the Arcanan powers that be to make their return suicide. They stay in Sharona as honorable exceptions that the rule of Arcana dishonor. Shaylar and Jathmar never return but stay in Arcana to foment fundamental change. The AEF POWs also remain and some, especially the magistron healers, find a place in Sharona teaching their trades and Gifts.

All of this continues for a century and the story resumes as each side has adopted some of the other's technology. Each side understands the other enough to overcome a century of prejudice.

Arcanan un-Gifted have begun to assert themselves into the economy and social order and destabilizing the existing order everywhere. Ransar is the only polity that adapts to the changes with something approaching equanimity.

Sharona adopts magic to function as electronics would in real life. I am thinking computers and information systems. I suspect they will be far better at creating networks and an internet even if the Arcanans will need it more. The Voice network gives them the template to work off of.

These will be the two societies that meet our Earth after a century. Well, or a reasonable proximity of this.
Top
Re: Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD
Post by brnicholas   » Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:33 pm

brnicholas
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:40 pm

n7axw wrote:There was never any question about this. However anger can be met with admission of guilt, apology and reparations.

Don

-


Once more true, but is there any evidence enough Arcanans are taking the wrongs done to Sharona seriously enough that the required apologies and reparations will be offered?

Nicholas
Top
Re: Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD
Post by n7axw   » Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:03 pm

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5997
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

brnicholas wrote:
n7axw wrote:There was never any question about this. However anger can be met with admission of guilt, apology and reparations.

Don

-


Once more true, but is there any evidence enough Arcanans are taking the wrongs done to Sharona seriously enough that the required apologies and reparations will be offered?

Nicholas


I think so. We have Jasek's family, some members of the commandery who are aware of what's happened and once there has been a full blown investigation, others will become aware.

Then too, Arcana's most serious threat is not the external one from Sharona, but the internal one from the Shikira. Once everything is out in the open, the conspiracy known and how that ties into how the war was initiated, we could be looking at a powerful backlash against the conspirators as well as a surge in support for peace.

Not that this will be easy. There are lots of good people in both Andara and Ransara. But Arcana will have to get past its fear just as Sharona needs to get past its anger.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
Top
Re: Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:12 pm

PeterZ
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 6432
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:11 pm
Location: Colorado

The same can be said about the Balkans, Don. If only they could get over their fear and anger. The "if only" grows harder and harder over time to overcome. I believe that's the direction of the overarching story arcs.
Top
Re: Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD
Post by n7axw   » Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:13 pm

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5997
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

PeterZ wrote:Of course they can, Don. BUT where's the literary artistry in that? Where is the pathos? Where is the humanity in all our imperfect glory?

Consider the last thoughts of this story arc leaving the reader with Arcana and Sharona each seeing the other as existential threats. Some politicians might suspect this is false, but the vast majority of the population do not. Each is prepared to wage what it perceives as a war of survival. Each side has POWs to provide information about the other side. Each side begins a generational war that the reader KNOWs is unnecessary. Heck, there might even be clandestine relations between the two sides as Gadriel, Jasak, Jathmar and Shaylar try to bridge the gap of POVs.

Velvig's Arcanan saviors may be cast as traitors by enough of the Arcanan powers that be to make their return suicide. They stay in Sharona as honorable exceptions that the rule of Arcana dishonor. Shaylar and Jathmar never return but stay in Arcana to foment fundamental change. The AEF POWs also remain and some, especially the magistron healers, find a place in Sharona teaching their trades and Gifts.

All of this continues for a century and the story resumes as each side has adopted some of the other's technology. Each side understands the other enough to overcome a century of prejudice.

Arcanan un-Gifted have begun to assert themselves into the economy and social order and destabilizing the existing order everywhere. Ransar is the only polity that adapts to the changes with something approaching equanimity.

Sharona adopts magic to function as electronics would in real life. I am thinking computers and information systems. I suspect they will be far better at creating networks and an internet even if the Arcanans will need it more. The Voice network gives them the template to work off of.

These will be the two societies that meet our Earth after a century. Well, or a reasonable proximity of this.


You can have a storyline filled with as much tension and derring do with a struggle for peace as you can have with everyone charging into battle. In fact it can be a more complicated exploration of the difficulty of human nature and relationships.

I have no idea hoe our authors will actually tell the story. I am only saying that what I've laid out is an option for how it might go.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
Top
Re: Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD
Post by n7axw   » Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:15 pm

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5997
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

PeterZ wrote:The same can be said about the Balkans, Don. If only they could get over their fear and anger. The "if only" grows harder and harder over time to overcome. I believe that's the direction of the overarching story arcs.


I don't think that your assumption here should be presumed. But you are right that it could go that way.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
Top
Re: Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD
Post by Howard T. Map-addict   » Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:26 pm

Howard T. Map-addict
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1392
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:47 am
Location: Philadelphia, PA

We have now met many Andarans (mostly soldiers).
We have met some Shakira, and some Garthans
(no multhari but Gurthak, though, & he's also vos).
We have met some Garthan-Andaran blends.

We have met hardly any Ransarans! When will we?
Ransarans are richest and most populous of the three groups.
They have some top-flight Magisters, too.
Their actions most likely will control Arcana.

HTM

n7axw wrote:
{snip - htm}
Not that this will be easy. There are lots of good people in both Andara and Ransara. But Arcana will have to get past its fear just as Sharona needs to get past its anger.

Don

-
Top
Re: Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD
Post by n7axw   » Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:24 pm

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5997
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

Howard T. Map-addict wrote:We have now met many Andarans (mostly soldiers).
We have met some Shakira, and some Garthans
(no multhari but Gurthak, though, & he's also vos).
We have met some Garthan-Andaran blends.

We have met hardly any Ransarans! When will we?
Ransarans are richest and most populous of the three groups.
They have some top-flight Magisters, too.
Their actions most likely will control Arcana.

HTM



Good questions. And from what little we do know, Ransarans are of all the folk in the Multiverse the most like Americans in social structure and values.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
Top
Re: Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD
Post by Astelon   » Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:09 pm

Astelon
Commander

Posts: 203
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:13 pm

Comparing the Ransaran culture to American culture may very likely lead to some incorrect assumptions.

As for meeting Ransarans I suspect that in the next book we may see some high level government meetings among the various Arcanan groups. We will likely see Ransarans and maybe even some of the minor groups (at least one was mentioned as a naval power).
Top

Return to Multiverse