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Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD

"Hell's Gate" and "Hell Hath No Fury", by David, Linda Evans, and Joelle Presby, take the clash of science and magic to a whole new dimension...join us in a friendly discussion of this engrossing series!
Re: Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD
Post by Keith_w   » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:39 am

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n7axw wrote:Another reflection I've had focuses around Chava Busar of the Uromanthian Empire. He obviously was behind the assasination attempt on the Calirath family through his cut out the Senachel who apparently set up what happened in the palace while his people more directly managed the attempt on Andrin.

In the immediate aftermath of the attempt, he has the Senaschel killed. I wonder if he was aware that the whole Calirath family actually survived the attempt before he killed the Senaschel. Could it be that that murder will tip off the Caliraths that the Senaschel was only the cut out for the assasination attempt and to look deeper into who else might be involved...

Also, I find myself wondering about Zindel... will he recover to be able to resume his responsibilities or will he be forced into retirement as he abdictates in favor of Andrin?

Don

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He is probably unaware that Andrin survived - the only member of the team who recognized that she did was the shark caller, the rest of the team was busy killing the seneschal. He may be aware that Zindel and the rest of the family escaped the explosion, there were plenty of people around, some of whom may be reporting to him. With any kind of luck, he will have a brain aneurism when he finds out that the only part of his plan that worked was the death of the Seneschal. That would leave his sons fighting over who inherits his throne and with any additional good fortune, they will kill each other off. But even if they don't the Uromathian empire will collapse due to his failing to establish and train a crown prince.

I think that so far as Zindel is concerned, as long as he is breathing he will be ruling.
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Re: Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD
Post by n7axw   » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:50 am

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PeterZ wrote:Don,

Civilized does not denote moral or adaptive. Mythal is ultra civilized and has a moral code only a relativist could find value in. Civilized in that they have the society has mores and folkways that are effective in maintaining a large complex society.

Andara's strict code of honor will keep it functioning as economic stress shakes up that society. Honor after all is a defining characteristic of how individuals deal with each other. How money changes hands and the financial distress one suffers does not change the personal obligations honor demands from an individual.

Ransar prides itself on valuing the individual. They also appear to value effective individuals. In a large population of individualists, there will be enough such effective individuals to ease the financial dislocations of any new knowledge.

Chava Bizarre just gave the only possible pretext to shorten the war to no more than maybe 3 more books. Zindel is barely alive and horribly injured. There will be many Magistron healers soon to fall under the Imperial Ternaithian Army's control. Enough said.


I took the word civilized and used it a certain way, I'll admit...

Chava Bizzare... I love it! It fits! :o

Magistron healers probably will find that their gift doesn't work on Sharona so that leaves the problem of getting Zindel some place where the gifts will work. The gifts do have limitations.. Think of that friend of Thankhar who still walked with a limp on New Arcana. I wonder what the limits of the healing talent might be.

I agreed with your analysis otherwise.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD
Post by n7axw   » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:57 am

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Keith_w wrote:
n7axw wrote:Another reflection I've had focuses around Chava Busar of the Uromanthian Empire. He obviously was behind the assasination attempt on the Calirath family through his cut out the Senachel who apparently set up what happened in the palace while his people more directly managed the attempt on Andrin.

In the immediate aftermath of the attempt, he has the Senaschel killed. I wonder if he was aware that the whole Calirath family actually survived the attempt before he killed the Senaschel. Could it be that that murder will tip off the Caliraths that the Senaschel was only the cut out for the assasination attempt and to look deeper into who else might be involved...

Also, I find myself wondering about Zindel... will he recover to be able to resume his responsibilities or will he be forced into retirement as he abdictates in favor of Andrin?

Don

-


He is probably unaware that Andrin survived - the only member of the team who recognized that she did was the shark caller, the rest of the team was busy killing the seneschal. He may be aware that Zindel and the rest of the family escaped the explosion, there were plenty of people around, some of whom may be reporting to him. With any kind of luck, he will have a brain aneurism when he finds out that the only part of his plan that worked was the death of the Seneschal. That would leave his sons fighting over who inherits his throne and with any additional good fortune, they will kill each other off. But even if they don't the Uromathian empire will collapse due to his failing to establish and train a crown prince.

I think that so far as Zindel is concerned, as long as he is breathing he will be ruling.


I'm afraid you're asking for too much luck. :( What I am hoping for is for some evidence to connect him to the event and I am expecting to be disappointed.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD
Post by PeterZ   » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:34 pm

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You won't be disappointed, Don. They will link Busar to the attempted assassination and will observe a dilemma. The Emperor/Empress can kill Chava and watch the Uromathian Empire fall apart or adopt a political fiction that castrates Chava but leaves him alive and nominally in charge of his Empire. The latter allows the Sharonan Empire to reorganize the Uromathian Empire with Chava present as a stabilizing force.

With Zindel alive and in charge of the Sharonan Empire and Andrin riding herd on the Uromathian Empire, Sharon should be able to support the War. With Shay and Jath's revelations castrating Mythal and reducing Arcana's ability to support the war, David and Joelle will be between the horns of their own dilemma. Do they write another long series of 10-15 books or finish up in 6?
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Re: Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD
Post by cnrd22   » Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:37 pm

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PeterZ wrote: David and Joelle will be between the horns of their own dilemma. Do they write another long series of 10-15 books or finish up in 6?


This arc will end in the next book (book 4), not in 6 or 15; DW stated this clearly at least twice I think (the recent Baen podcast with BuNine I think is one and the National Book Talk another but could be wrong about details); more books that will develop the multiverse to encompass our Earth *could* be forthcoming if books 3/4 (and possibly the reprints of books 1/2) do well enough at the box office so to speak to allow it
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Re: Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD
Post by Keith_w   » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:28 pm

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PeterZ wrote:You won't be disappointed, Don. They will link Busar to the attempted assassination and will observe a dilemma. The Emperor/Empress can kill Chava and watch the Uromathian Empire fall apart or adopt a political fiction that castrates Chava but leaves him alive and nominally in charge of his Empire. The latter allows the Sharonan Empire to reorganize the Uromathian Empire with Chava present as a stabilizing force.

With Zindel alive and in charge of the Sharonan Empire and Andrin riding herd on the Uromathian Empire, Sharon should be able to support the War. With Shay and Jath's revelations castrating Mythal and reducing Arcana's ability to support the war, David and Joelle will be between the horns of their own dilemma. Do they write another long series of 10-15 books or finish up in 6?


David's grandmother lived to be 101 1/2 years old, I'm betting on a 10-15 book series.
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Re: Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD
Post by PeterZ   » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:16 pm

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Ye of little faith. The Multiverse is catching on as the Crown of Slaves, mainline Honorverse and Shadows series wind down. Joelle writes better than any of David's other co-authors except Ringo. This series can go as long as Joelle will carry the heavy lifting.

cnrd22 wrote:
PeterZ wrote: David and Joelle will be between the horns of their own dilemma. Do they write another long series of 10-15 books or finish up in 6?


This arc will end in the next book (book 4), not in 6 or 15; DW stated this clearly at least twice I think (the recent Baen podcast with BuNine I think is one and the National Book Talk another but could be wrong about details); more books that will develop the multiverse to encompass our Earth *could* be forthcoming if books 3/4 (and possibly the reprints of books 1/2) do well enough at the box office so to speak to allow it
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Re: Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD
Post by n7axw   » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:39 pm

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PeterZ wrote:You won't be disappointed, Don. They will link Busar to the attempted assassination and will observe a dilemma. The Emperor/Empress can kill Chava and watch the Uromathian Empire fall apart or adopt a political fiction that castrates Chava but leaves him alive and nominally in charge of his Empire. The latter allows the Sharonan Empire to reorganize the Uromathian Empire with Chava present as a stabilizing force.

With Zindel alive and in charge of the Sharonan Empire and Andrin riding herd on the Uromathian Empire, Sharon should be able to support the War. With Shay and Jath's revelations castrating Mythal and reducing Arcana's ability to support the war, David and Joelle will be between the horns of their own dilemma. Do they write another long series of 10-15 books or finish up in 6?


I see your point, but the only way you stop Chava's scheming is to disconnet the head from the rest of his body to prevent recidisism. Otherwise he always remains a threat.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD
Post by n7axw   » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:46 pm

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Keith_w wrote:
I think that so far as Zindel is concerned, as long as he is breathing, he will be ruling.


Unless he has sustained brain damage or is completely crippled up. There are limits that when they are passed leave him unable to do the job. And what happened was pretty serious.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD
Post by PeterZ   » Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:39 am

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While I tend to agree, I suspect the textev about how ill prepared the Uromathian Empire is to survive Chava Busar's death foreshadows another alternative. That alternative likely falls to Andrin and her Einathian husband. Perhaps enough Uromathian troops will and uromathian people will recognize the threat Arcana represents to accept that alternative.

I am thinking the Prince of Wales meets Caesar. Chava adopts Andrin's husband as his heir when he realizes just how bad his defendants are as rulers of his Empire. Perhaps Zindel offers to put a gaes on the Uromathian crown and that either scares Chava's heirs or forces Chava to make a better choice for his successor. Perhaps he tricks Chava into accepting a crown with the gaes. I can see all crowned heads of state being required by the Imperial Sharonan Legislature to have their tile affirmed by the Imperial Crown. Once the royal heads of state accept their gaesed crowns, they will do what is best for their nations.
n7axw wrote:
PeterZ wrote:You won't be disappointed, Don. They will link Busar to the attempted assassination and will observe a dilemma. The Emperor/Empress can kill Chava and watch the Uromathian Empire fall apart or adopt a political fiction that castrates Chava but leaves him alive and nominally in charge of his Empire. The latter allows the Sharonan Empire to reorganize the Uromathian Empire with Chava present as a stabilizing force.

With Zindel alive and in charge of the Sharonan Empire and Andrin riding herd on the Uromathian Empire, Sharon should be able to support the War. With Shay and Jath's revelations castrating Mythal and reducing Arcana's ability to support the war, David and Joelle will be between the horns of their own dilemma. Do they write another long series of 10-15 books or finish up in 6?


I see your point, but the only way you stop Chava's scheming is to disconnet the head from the rest of his body to prevent recidisism. Otherwise he always remains a threat.

Don

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