Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests

ceatecan/primate theory, spoilers

"Hell's Gate" and "Hell Hath No Fury", by David, Linda Evans, and Joelle Presby, take the clash of science and magic to a whole new dimension...join us in a friendly discussion of this engrossing series!
ceatecan/primate theory, spoilers
Post by interesting   » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:29 am

interesting
Midshipman

Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:13 am

Okay, so, in the new book, cetaceans are not regarded as sentient in the magic universe. Now, maybe they have just been ignored and hunted, so no one cared. But, maybe they are actually not especially sentient in that universe. I guess that will be put to the test if the voice tries talking to one.

We know, from the third book, that the belief systems of the humans actually influence the universe they are in.

What if, all the generations of Sharonans thinking cetaceans are smart, has actually made them smarter, bit by bit. It would be a similar thing to the magical breeding conducted by the other side. Just not deliberate.

Perhaps the reason no one knew primates/cetaceans could have powers, is that the actually couldn't have powers before. They developed them recently, and kept it secret.

Note, at the end we have a marriage bond formed with someone who has no powers, something thought impossible. Will he get a power now?
Maybe, at some point, a dolphin lover was so attached she 'shared' her powers with a dolphin, and got the change started.


The idea that there is a secret underwater portal offers the possibility that the smarter type of cetaceans came from another universe....but that would not explain why there are also smart primates.

I do seem to recall an instance in the earlier books where the voice tried talking to a dolphin, during the long prison ride? that was in a fairly colonized universe I think, but I really forget the details now.
Top
Re: ceatecan/primate theory, spoilers
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:27 am

PeterZ
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 6432
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:11 pm
Location: Colorado

Smarter? Likely not. Wiser and more practiced at thinking through sharing thoughts and memories via Talents... very likely true.

I believe a more interesting question is; are there cetaceans and simians in the multiverse beyond Arcana and Sharona? So far we have seen only two source universes for intelligence. The description of cetacean behavior in regards to Drakes by vos Sidus suggests that cetaceans do think and communicate. One assumes they communicate through their songs.

So are the virgin universes only devoid of humans or are they devoid of any sentient beings? Either way it appears that sentience is a driving cause of portal formation. How and why?
Top
Re: ceatecan/primate theory, spoilers
Post by interesting   » Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:32 pm

interesting
Midshipman

Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:13 am

I thought I recalled the voice trying to talk to a cetacean early in the prison voyage, and realized it was harder than normal. Thus, an indication of weakening powers. So, that would indicate they exist on other worlds. I might have recalled incorrectly though.

Also, when taking about his 3 headed drakes, it was mentioned that they like going to new worlds, where animals are naive, so easier to hunt. Cetaceans might have been mentioned as being on those other worlds at that point?

I don't think there was any direct mention of the magic universe cetaceans being smart, other than the fact that they have learned to avoid the coasts and dragons. That's a very low threshold of smart. Every creature will learn to recognize a predator very quickly.

While I agree it seems likely they are smart even in the magic universe, I just note that talking cetaceans and simians are clearly smarter than in our real world. As such, earths version might be the baseline of normal, not Sharona's.

An extra point I forgot to mention before. They mentioned Orca used to have a secret war against humans. It seems likely this could be foreshadowing of a 5th column of resistance that might exist in almost all the magic universes. A possibly magic using 5th column. One that could be very disruptive of supply lines. Imagine if they were pared with a human, who could check if a ship had message gryphons. If not, the cetaceans could sink the ship, without anyone knowing what happened. How big a ship could be capsized if 5-10 blue whales rammed it? Or, had a few limpet mines attached at the ships spine.
Top
Re: ceatecan/primate theory, spoilers
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:01 pm

PeterZ
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 6432
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:11 pm
Location: Colorado

Well, in our universe we do not communicate with either cetaceans or simians. The lack of communication allows us to assume they are less intelligent. That may or may not be true. The same can be said for Arcana.

I would add that Orca still frequent Mythal's coastal waters despite the drake's. That suggests something more than a learned predator avoidance response. That reflects a higher order decision process than a direct learned avoidance.
Top
Re: ceatecan/primate theory, spoilers
Post by CanoeSage   » Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:16 pm

CanoeSage
Ensign

Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:07 pm

interesting wrote:Note, at the end we have a marriage bond formed with someone who has no powers, something thought impossible. Will he get a power now?


When was this? I must have missed that detail.
Top
Re: ceatecan/primate theory, spoilers
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:39 pm

PeterZ
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 6432
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:11 pm
Location: Colorado

CanoeSage wrote:
interesting wrote:Note, at the end we have a marriage bond formed with someone who has no powers, something thought impossible. Will he get a power now?


When was this? I must have missed that detail.


I think this was inferred from Andrin's growing love for her husband. I did not read Andrin's realization to mean an actual bond that each recognizes but a symbolic one that each feels separately trim the other.
Top
Re: ceatecan/primate theory, spoilers
Post by CanoeSage   » Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:16 pm

CanoeSage
Ensign

Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:07 pm

PeterZ wrote:
interesting wrote:Note, at the end we have a marriage bond formed with someone who has no powers, something thought impossible. Will he get a power now?


(CanoeSage response removed)

I think this was inferred from Andrin's growing love for her husband. I did not read Andrin's realization to mean an actual bond that each recognizes but a symbolic one that each feels separately trim the other.


Ok. I found it. It's actually very explicit.
"The rush of love she felt for the quiet, courageous man she’d married filled her heart to bursting, and then, suddenly, (spoiler removed), a wall went down. That turbulent tide of love lifted her, reached out, opened what she realized must be the marriage bond Darcel and Alazon had described to her. But how? Howan Fai wasn’t Talented! They couldn’t forge a marriage bond, yet they had. They had! And as her emotion swept across him, through the bond they now shared, the look in his eyes shifted, gentled…and somehow blazed more fiercely than ever."
Top
Re: ceatecan/primate theory, spoilers
Post by interesting   » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:06 am

interesting
Midshipman

Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:13 am

I also note, that someone (the simian ambassador?) said that they seem to have much more variability than humans, eg more at the extremes of the ability spectrum. Given that the low performing ones are usually the ones in contact, it does make it harder to extrapolate differences between universes.
Top
Re: ceatecan/primate theory, spoilers
Post by Astelon   » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:18 pm

Astelon
Commander

Posts: 203
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:13 pm

I suspect that Howan Dai is slightly talented, and the quotes passage could be evidence of such.

I recall no instance of Shaylar trying to communicate with any cetacean at any point in the series. She realized that talents were falling because she noticed that marriage bond was getting weaker.
Top

Return to Multiverse