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One thing about the marriage that confuses me

"Hell's Gate" and "Hell Hath No Fury", by David, Linda Evans, and Joelle Presby, take the clash of science and magic to a whole new dimension...join us in a friendly discussion of this engrossing series!
One thing about the marriage that confuses me
Post by Karthak   » Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:54 am

Karthak
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Just started the third book, and Zindel being all Woe Is Me over his daughter having to marry an Uromathian prince confused me:

"That simple absolution cut Zindel to the bone. She wasn’t just his eldest daughter and heir; she was the promise of greatness. And she would never reach it, not under one of Chava Busar’s sons. If nothing else, they would kill her in childbed, getting child after child on her. He wanted to wrap his hands around the throat of every rutting royal bastard in Uromathia and squeeze until all that remained was crushed bone and purpled, lifeless flesh. Wanted—more than he’d ever wanted anything in his life—to denounce the accords which made her marriage to a Uromathian prince the price for putting the crown of a united Sharona upon his own head. But duty—that cruel, uncaring goddess of ice and steel which had demanded so much of his ancestors over the millennia—demanded this of him…and of her."

Are wives the property of their husbands on Sharona? I'm getting the impression from the book that Andrin would essentially be a brood-mare to whichever son of Chava she would end up marrying. The hell? She's still the daughter of the planet's Emperor.

Couldn't she, after conceiving a single heir, simply refuse to see her husband again? And even if she couldn't avoid her husband, why on earth would anyone think that he could get away with abusing her? Again, her father is the most powerful person on the planet. This is not A Song of Ice and Fire.
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Re: One thing about the marriage that confuses me
Post by Keith_w   » Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:11 am

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Karthak wrote:Just started the third book, and Zindel being all Woe Is Me over his daughter having to marry an Uromathian prince confused me:

"That simple absolution cut Zindel to the bone. She wasn’t just his eldest daughter and heir; she was the promise of greatness. And she would never reach it, not under one of Chava Busar’s sons. If nothing else, they would kill her in childbed, getting child after child on her. He wanted to wrap his hands around the throat of every rutting royal bastard in Uromathia and squeeze until all that remained was crushed bone and purpled, lifeless flesh. Wanted—more than he’d ever wanted anything in his life—to denounce the accords which made her marriage to a Uromathian prince the price for putting the crown of a united Sharona upon his own head. But duty—that cruel, uncaring goddess of ice and steel which had demanded so much of his ancestors over the millennia—demanded this of him…and of her."

Are wives the property of their husbands on Sharona? I'm getting the impression from the book that Andrin would essentially be a brood-mare to whichever son of Chava she would end up marrying. The hell? She's still the daughter of the planet's Emperor.

Couldn't she, after conceiving a single heir, simply refuse to see her husband again? And even if she couldn't avoid her husband, why on earth would anyone think that he could get away with abusing her? Again, her father is the most powerful person on the planet. This is not A Song of Ice and Fire.


Probably not, otherwise she wouldn't be the empress after her father dies (supposedly one of the reasons Elizabeth the 1st never married).

However, one would assume that her husband has more rights than just "get over here and make an heir (or heirs) and then get out of my life".
--
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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Re: One thing about the marriage that confuses me
Post by n7axw   » Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:22 pm

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I admit that confuses me as well. Husband's rights not withstanding, she is still heir to the throne should her father die and one would think that would give Andrin some rights of her own. Anyone she married would be consort to the crown princess which would mean that he would become part of Zindel's household and eventually consort to the Empress after she assumed the throne.

So I'm not sure how all of this plays out. I could have this completely wrong...

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: One thing about the marriage that confuses me
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:49 pm

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I believe the fear is that once a child is born, Andrin could be killed and the child sent to Chava. If the first attempt failed they would try again and again until they succeed in killing her or she dies in child birth.
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Re: One thing about the marriage that confuses me
Post by n7axw   » Fri Jan 01, 2016 3:07 pm

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PeterZ wrote:I believe the fear is that once a child is born, Andrin could be killed and the child sent to Chava. If the first attempt failed they would try again and again until they succeed in killing her or she dies in child birth.


Where is the couple residing? Given that she's the heir, one would think that it would be in Zindel's houshold. Granted, her husband could kill her, but in that event the child becomes the heir. So why send the child to Chava?

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: One thing about the marriage that confuses me
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:06 pm

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Not sure beyond politics

n7axw wrote:
PeterZ wrote:I believe the fear is that once a child is born, Andrin could be killed and the child sent to Chava. If the first attempt failed they would try again and again until they succeed in killing her or she dies in child birth.


Where is the couple residing? Given that she's the heir, one would think that it would be in Zindel's houshold. Granted, her husband could kill her, but in that event the child becomes the heir. So why send the child to Chava?

Don

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Re: One thing about the marriage that confuses me
Post by BrightSoul   » Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:36 pm

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n7axw wrote:
PeterZ wrote:I believe the fear is that once a child is born, Andrin could be killed and the child sent to Chava. If the first attempt failed they would try again and again until they succeed in killing her or she dies in child birth.


Where is the couple residing? Given that she's the heir, one would think that it would be in Zindel's houshold. Granted, her husband could kill her, but in that event the child becomes the heir. So why send the child to Chava?

Don

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I rather got the impression that the new Empire of Sharona's capital isn't going to be in Ternatia but rather closer to the main portal. I rather got the impression that the new capital is likely going to be the very city they're in right now.
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Re: One thing about the marriage that confuses me
Post by n7axw   » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:07 pm

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BrightSoul wrote:
I rather got the impression that the new Empire of Sharona's capital isn't going to be in Ternatia but rather closer to the main portal. I rather got the impression that the new capital is likely going to be the very city they're in right now.


This is also my impression. Zindel's family will live in the old palace as the new imperial family of a reunited empire.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: One thing about the marriage that confuses me
Post by Keith_w   » Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:27 am

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n7axw wrote:
BrightSoul wrote:
I rather got the impression that the new Empire of Sharona's capital isn't going to be in Ternatia but rather closer to the main portal. I rather got the impression that the new capital is likely going to be the very city they're in right now.


This is also my impression. Zindel's family will live in the old palace as the new imperial family of a reunited empire.

Don

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the main portal isn't in Tjanana, the former capital of the Ternathian empire, it is elsewhere. The reason the meeting was called in Tjanana is that it is relatively neutral ground and had someplace large enough to house all the heads of state and their entourages, and for this reason it will remain the capital of the empire of Sharona.

Edit: Oh, and also it had enough of a backstory with the animosity of the head of the Order of Bergdhal to add some interest to the story.
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A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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Re: One thing about the marriage that confuses me
Post by Howard T. Map-addict   » Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:18 pm

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There's Laws,
and there is What Actually Happens,
and then there is What People Expect To Happen.

I daresay that Chava's daughters-in-law have been slaves.
His daughters, OTOH, might be his senior agents, (or
maybe not, if he despises women too much).

The Caliraths might demand that Andrin's husband come to
them for the marriage, and live with them.
Chava would demand that Andrin come to his territory.
What then?
No marriage unless they meet *somewhere*!

HTM

Keith_w wrote:
Karthak wrote:Just started the third book, and Zindel being all Woe Is Me over his daughter having to marry an Uromathian prince confused me:

"That simple absolution cut Zindel to the bone. She wasn’t just his eldest daughter and heir; she was the promise of greatness. And she would never reach it, not under one of Chava Busar’s sons. If nothing else, they would kill her in childbed, getting child after child on her. He wanted to wrap his hands around the throat of every rutting royal bastard in Uromathia and squeeze until all that remained was crushed bone and purpled, lifeless flesh. Wanted—more than he’d ever wanted anything in his life—to denounce the accords which made her marriage to a Uromathian prince the price for putting the crown of a united Sharona upon his own head. But duty—that cruel, uncaring goddess of ice and steel which had demanded so much of his ancestors over the millennia—demanded this of him…and of her."

Are wives the property of their husbands on Sharona? I'm getting the impression from the book that Andrin would essentially be a brood-mare to whichever son of Chava she would end up marrying. The hell? She's still the daughter of the planet's Emperor.

Couldn't she, after conceiving a single heir, simply refuse to see her husband again? And even if she couldn't avoid her husband, why on earth would anyone think that he could get away with abusing her? Again, her father is the most powerful person on the planet. This is not A Song of Ice and Fire.


Probably not, otherwise she wouldn't be the empress after her father dies (supposedly one of the reasons Elizabeth the 1st never married).

However, one would assume that her husband has more rights than just "get over here and make an heir (or heirs) and then get out of my life".
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