Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests

SPOILER: Road to Hell

"Hell's Gate" and "Hell Hath No Fury", by David, Linda Evans, and Joelle Presby, take the clash of science and magic to a whole new dimension...join us in a friendly discussion of this engrossing series!
Re: SPOILER: Road to Hell
Post by tonyz   » Fri Dec 25, 2015 4:21 pm

tonyz
Lieutenant Commander

Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:42 pm
Location: Keene, TX

feyhunde wrote:Question, have we seen anything with the Sharonians using electricity?.


As far as I know, only incandescent lights in one of the early council scenes. No sign of electricity as motive power so far.
Top
Re: SPOILER: Road to Hell
Post by phillies   » Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:07 pm

phillies
Admiral

Posts: 2076
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:43 am
Location: Worcester, MA

telegraph cable across ocean comes to mind
feyhunde wrote:
PeterZ wrote:Developed worlds in Arcana have magic/power nets but no broadcast information nets. They still require hummers to transmit information. This suggests that they do not broadcast power or information.

I ask because there have been many references to passing information between PCs and between other crystals, like transferring data to a message crystal requires the hummer handler to physically take the crystal to the hummer. Would the crystals have to physically touch to transfer information? Is there a broadcast range that is VERY limited? Is some level of Gift required to transfer data?

Any inability to broadcast information would strike me as a massive limitation on Arcan's ability to exploit their technology.


Question, have we seen anything with the Sharonians using electricity? just thinking that in this equivalent time period, electric trucks were actually somewhat popular for deliveries, not to mention light rail. Because the telegraph seems like something that's an oh duh for them to speed up transmission times across their more developed routes, since it should be able to go across portals.

The same goes for if a technological society shows up that radio should go across the portal interface. Unless it turns out electricity is one of those things interfered with by the interfaces.

If it's like MWW usually likes to mess with, I'm thinking complex electronics might be where there's tech issues. (With Quantum effects being part of our paradigm, thus stuff like a potential well in a microchip working differently across the multiverse.
Top
Re: SPOILER: Road to Hell
Post by Astelon   » Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:48 pm

Astelon
Commander

Posts: 203
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:13 pm

The problem with Sharona developing any kind of early electronic communications is that they already have something far superior. the Voice talent might be a bit slower (with the need to move voices into range) but it can transmit far more data, providing full audio and visual as well as side channels of emotion. You have to get several decades into radio communications development before you can compete. Few will be willing to spend lots of money for the inferior communications product, and few inventors will keep working on radio or telegraph without some foreseeable use. Therefore development will be slowed.
Top
Re: SPOILER: Road to Hell
Post by n7axw   » Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:12 pm

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5997
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

Astelon wrote:The problem with Sharona developing any kind of early electronic communications is that they already have something far superior. the Voice talent might be a bit slower (with the need to move voices into range) but it can transmit far more data, providing full audio and visual as well as side channels of emotion. You have to get several decades into radio communications development before you can compete. Few will be willing to spend lots of money for the inferior communications product, and few inventors will keep working on radio or telegraph without some foreseeable use. Therefore development will be slowed.


You've got a valid point. But there is a problem with this. For all of the advantages the voices offer, the potential is mature and it is limited to that percentage of the population that has that talent.

As technology progresses and its use becomes more and more widespread, the demand for data exchange becomes greater and greater and more universal and wireless communication is the most efficient way of meeting that demand. The sheer volume would soon swamp the voices and be an impediment to both commercial and technological advancement.

I see Sharona as being on the verge of the sort of industrial expansion the would expand into the need for information age technology, if not immediately, then eventually. I suspect that the war and its rendency to pressurize research will accelerate all of this. They are going to need radio and the tech that flows from its development.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
Top
Re: SPOILER: Road to Hell
Post by phillies   » Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:23 pm

phillies
Admiral

Posts: 2076
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:43 am
Location: Worcester, MA

Wireless, at the front end, is grossly expensive and inefficient. Wire communication is far more effective. In particular, telegraphy across the wider oceans would be advantageous.

n7axw wrote:
Astelon wrote:The problem with Sharona developing any kind of early electronic communications is that they already have something far superior. the Voice talent might be a bit slower (with the need to move voices into range) but it can transmit far more data, providing full audio and visual as well as side channels of emotion. You have to get several decades into radio communications development before you can compete. Few will be willing to spend lots of money for the inferior communications product, and few inventors will keep working on radio or telegraph without some foreseeable use. Therefore development will be slowed.


You've got a valid point. But there is a problem with this. For all of the advantages the voices offer, the potential is mature and it is limited to that percentage of the population that has that talent.

As technology progresses and its use becomes more and more widespread, the demand for data exchange becomes greater and greater and more universal and wireless communication is the most efficient way of meeting that demand. The sheer volume would soon swamp the voices and be an impediment to both commercial and technological advancement.

I see Sharona as being on the verge of the sort of industrial expansion the would expand into the need for information age technology, if not immediately, then eventually. I suspect that the war and its rendency to pressurize research will accelerate all of this. They are going to need radio and the tech that flows from its development.

Don

-
Top
Re: SPOILER: Road to Hell
Post by n7axw   » Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:52 am

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5997
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

phillies wrote:Wireless, at the front end, is grossly expensive and inefficient. Wire communication is far more effective. In particular, telegraphy across the wider oceans would be advantageous.



Not by the time someone pays for all that wire, athough there are arguments both ways...

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
Top
Re: SPOILER: Road to Hell
Post by Keith_w   » Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:26 pm

Keith_w
Commodore

Posts: 976
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:10 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Did anyone else think it was kind of short compared to the other two?
--
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
Top
Re: SPOILER: Road to Hell
Post by n7axw   » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:54 pm

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5997
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

n7axw wrote:
phillies wrote:Wireless, at the front end, is grossly expensive and inefficient. Wire communication is far more effective. In particular, telegraphy across the wider oceans would be advantageous.



Not by the time someone pays for all that wire, athough there are arguments both ways...

Don

-


You know, Philies, I've been thinking about this subject sinse my post and have come to the conclusion that you are mostly right. Technologically, both sides are close to a century away from being able to sustain the sort of wireless networks that I was envisioning Which would include a support network of satelites, sophisticated computers, relays, etc. that would be beyond Sharona's reach for a long time.

Wired networks would be expensive to build and maintain, but would be something they can do now, or at least in the near term future. Like the voices, they would eventually be overwhelmed with the data flow. But at the moment, the problem wouldn't be that severe and by the time it did get that severe, more sophisticated tech would be available to help deal with the problem...eventually leading to the sorts of systems I was envisioning.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
Top
Re: SPOILER: Road to Hell
Post by feyhunde   » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:02 pm

feyhunde
Lieutenant Commander

Posts: 144
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:30 am

n7axw wrote:
You know, Philies, I've been thinking about this subject sinse my post and have come to the conclusion that you are mostly right. Technologically, both sides are close to a century away from being able to sustain the sort of wireless networks that I was envisioning Which would include a support network of satelites, sophisticated computers, relays, etc. that would be beyond Sharona's reach for a long time.

Wired networks would be expensive to build and maintain, but would be something they can do now, or at least in the near term future. Like the voices, they would eventually be overwhelmed with the data flow. But at the moment, the problem wouldn't be that severe and by the time it did get that severe, more sophisticated tech would be available to help deal with the problem...eventually leading to the sorts of systems I was envisioning.

Don

-


In our context, its sufficient for the wired networks to follow the train tracks. (and incandescent lights don't guarantee they have AC current).

Voices have limits despite their advantages. They can have a great range, transmit an entire sensory load in real time, and have perfect recall. But you need to be a voice or have access to rare projectives to hear the message. And most people aren't voices.

So there seems to still be a need for signaling. Maybe a large ship at sea has a voice. Or its common enough so a train having hundreds of passengers may have one. But the brakemen and engineers are probably not both voices.

Now there's a bunch of ways we've figured out signaling, despite everything now either being a wired or wireless electrical signal. We used to use bells on strings, air pressure, lighting schemes, semaphore signals, etc. Using the voicenet to route trains is quite possible, but seems off for big crowded routes.
Top
Re: SPOILER: Road to Hell
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:07 pm

PeterZ
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 6432
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:11 pm
Location: Colorado

If i understand correctly, magic is the channeling of extra dimensional forces into the physical universe to induce an effect that could not manifest absent the intrusion of magic. Magical forces can counter gravity and inertia to enable flight, levitation and all manner of other phenomena. Arcanans have already created a power net on their more developed universes. Why haven't they developed some version of a telegraph? Hummers can carry more info than a telegraph, sure. But improving transmission rates would be a matter spellware development.

We know that large amounts of data are transferred between PCs. Why can't that data be transferred over any distance beyond the reach of an individual?

Personally, I believe the reason is that the Arcanans never had the need to create that sort of exception to the natural laws. Since magic is the structuring of extra dimensional forces to cause an effect that is inconsistent with natural laws, Arcanan development is the art of combining the forces to generate the desired results. The magister envisions the effect then tries to combine the forces to make the effect happen. Sharonan development on the other hand seeks to understand what the physical laws allow then engineer solutions that are within what is allowed.

I wonder if having the Voices as an example will spur some magister to find a way to transfer data at some larger distance than has been possible? Same with Sharona regarding electricity. That is another source of power they can control much like magical energy.
Top

Return to Multiverse