Artillery Effectiveness?

The Arcanians have not had enough time to internalize the Sharonan indirect fire threat, let alone countermeasures.

They need big defeats with many survivors to learn quickly.

This has not happened to date with the Arcanians.

The Arcanians will not have the incentive (big set piece battle defeats) or time before the Sharonan counter-offensive towards Hell's Gate kicks in large scale and achieves momentum.

Regards Sharonan momentum, please note that the 200 man PAAF Cavalry relief column in "Hells Gate" moved 300 miles in five days with 4.5 inch mortars before punching out Charlie Company Andaran Scouts.

While that was pure multi-horse per rider and multi-mule per load column moving 60 miles a day, it is still clear the Arcanians very much underestimate the unimproved terrain cargo capacity of Sharonan inflated rubber tire and spring shock wagons. Wagons so fitted likely have double to triple the mobility of steel rim wagons in terms of per day mobility.

And of course we have the Bisons plus Mule steam engine/trailer in the wings.

Mil-tech bard wrote:The Arcanians have not had enough time to internalize the Sharonan indirect fire threat, let alone countermeasures.

They need big defeats with many survivors to learn quickly.

This has not happened to date with the Arcanians.

The Arcanians will not have the incentive (big set piece battle defeats) or time before the Sharonan counter-offensive towards Hell's Gate kicks in large scale and achieves momentum.

Regards Sharonan momentum, please note that the 200 man PAAF Cavalry relief column in "Hells Gate" moved 300 miles in five days with 4.5 inch mortars before punching out Charlie Company Andaran Scouts.

While that was pure multi-horse per rider and multi-mule per load column moving 60 miles a day, it is still clear the Arcanians very much underestimate the unimproved terrain cargo capacity of Sharonan inflated rubber tire and spring shock wagons. Wagons so fitted likely have double to triple the mobility of steel rim wagons in terms of per day mobility.

And of course we have the Bisons plus Mule steam engine/trailer in the wings.

I whole heartedly agree. Both with your analysis of what it will take to jar the Arcanans into adapting to indirect fire and your last two paragraphs.

Arcana is going to start bumping into the limits of their magic, I think. How fast they can adapt to that reality could be one of the most interesting themes in the book.

Don

Things may not be quite as bad for Arcana as you suggest. You appear to be thinking like a mechanised combat group officer, and I'm not sure the _Sharonans_ have got there yet.

In fact, unless I'm forgetting something [aamof, I have a feeling that I am], they don't seem to have had any major conflicts since the modern weapons designs were introduced: the number of horses charging around is proof that there's not been anything too bloody since they got their machine guns working. Not even the Uromathians are narrow-minded enough to value tradition over making the other poor bastard die, so clearly everyone is still working through the implications of large fragile combatants vs heavy fire power - QF guns just as bad for cavalry as machine guns in that respect. Given the forces we see deployed, I've actually been rather surprised at the sophistication of the Sharonans' artillery doctrine, and the quickmindedness that improvised flak from shrapnel when they don't even seem to have seriously considered lighter-than-air flight. I would actually have expected something much more akin to the dismal doctrine on display from 1914-16 or so.

Mil-tech bard wrote:The Arcanians have not had enough time to internalize the Sharonan indirect fire threat, let alone countermeasures.

They need big defeats with many survivors to learn quickly.

This has not happened to date with the Arcanians.

The Arcanians will not have the incentive (big set piece battle defeats) or time before the Sharonan counter-offensive towards Hell's Gate kicks in large scale and achieves momentum.

Regards Sharonan momentum, please note that the 200 man PAAF Cavalry relief column in "Hells Gate" moved 300 miles in five days with 4.5 inch mortars before punching out Charlie Company Andaran Scouts.

While that was pure multi-horse per rider and multi-mule per load column moving 60 miles a day, it is still clear the Arcanians very much underestimate the unimproved terrain cargo capacity of Sharonan inflated rubber tire and spring shock wagons. Wagons so fitted likely have double to triple the mobility of steel rim wagons in terms of per day mobility.

And of course we have the Bisons plus Mule steam engine/trailer in the wings.

We've also seen some Arcanan use of cloaking glamours -- I am guessing that more of these will show up -- and they apparently have nightvision and navigation spellware, both of which will let them operate in situations which greatly hinder Sharonan artillery direction.

Now, how fast will they figure out how they need to use this?

And, the cloaking glamours might be stronger once
they get farther away from Sharona than Traisum.

HTM

tonyz wrote:We've also seen some Arcanan use of cloaking glamours -- I am guessing that more of these will show up -- and they apparently have nightvision and navigation spellware, both of which will let them operate in situations which greatly hinder Sharonan artillery direction.

Now, how fast will they figure out how they need to use this?

Howard T. Map-addict wrote:And, the cloaking glamours might be stronger once
they get farther away from Sharona than Traisum.

HTM

tonyz wrote:We've also seen some Arcanan use of cloaking glamours -- I am guessing that more of these will show up -- and they apparently have nightvision and navigation spellware, both of which will let them operate in situations which greatly hinder Sharonan artillery direction.

Now, how fast will they figure out how they need to use this?

In the final confrontation at Ft. Salby, the Sharonans did see some cloaking involved with that calvary charge at the fort. Janaki warned them about it, iirc. But once they've identified it, they night be able to cope with it.

Don

I don't remember there being any night vision spellware. In fact the lead pilot in the attack on Fort Salby was concerned about dragons flying into cliffs. He did mention that dragons see better in the dark than people do, but he was still concerned.

As for how well a cloaking glamour will work it depends on how it works vs a plotter. If the plotter can "see" the men and animals hidden by the glamour, then he can help the distance viewer find them, similar to Fort Salby. The plotter may even be able to direct the artillery himself, if he has been trained for it.

The reason for the Sharonan Advanced Artillery doctrine is talents.

The reason for the full on anti-aircraft doctrine is a talent == the Calirath talent to be specific.

Until Arcania understands talents, it will not be able to use its magic to best advantage to counter them.

Talents, also allow Sharona to adapt more quickly.

IOW, talents understand magic better than magic understands talents.

What happens the the other side of Hell's Gate, where Talents get weaker and magic stronger, remains to be seen.

If universes tip based on population, once Sharona gets a rail line to Hell's Gate. It is game over for Arcania there.

At 10,000 tons of stuff and 3,000 people per train, a couple of dozen trains gets into universal law shifting human numbers compared to Arcanian dragon transit capabilities.

Mil-tech bard wrote:
If universes tip based on population, once Sharona gets a rail line to Hell's Gate. It is game over for Arcania there.

At 10,000 tons of stuff and 3,000 people per train, a couple of dozen trains gets into universal law shifting human numbers compared to Arcanian dragon transit capabilities.

Do you think either Arcana or Sharona is aware of this?

Don

Arcania is set to find out -- via Shaylar's talent fade out -- but not soon enough to save the Hell's Gate universe for Magic.

This thought -- magic losing Hell's Gate -- is based upon Sharonan rail logistics staying intact to Hell's Gate and Arcania still being dragon limited for so many, many, universes.

The Arcanians can send further, bigger pulses of Dragon armed forces to Hell's Gate, but the manifest superiority of rail lift over dragon lift over time puts Hell's Gate "A Universe To Far".

n7axw wrote:

Mil-tech bard wrote:
If universes tip based on population, once Sharona gets a rail line to Hell's Gate. It is game over for Arcania there.

At 10,000 tons of stuff and 3,000 people per train, a couple of dozen trains gets into universal law shifting human numbers compared to Arcanian dragon transit capabilities.

Do you think either Arcana or Sharona is aware of this?

Don