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Is Ft. Salby Arcanan high water mark? (potentially spoiler)

"Hell's Gate" and "Hell Hath No Fury", by David, Linda Evans, and Joelle Presby, take the clash of science and magic to a whole new dimension...join us in a friendly discussion of this engrossing series!
Is Ft. Salby Arcanan high water mark? (potentially spoiler)
Post by n7axw   » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:41 pm

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I have found myself thinking, and you are invited to respond, that the failed attack on Ft. Salby means they have about reached the limit on how far they can go.

I base my thought on the following...

1.They are really out on the ragged end of their supply chain. For example, their stockpile of accumulators are back at the end of the slider head, 30,000 miles back from their current position. That supply was depleted to get them as far as they have come. That means they must rely on the natural load carrying capability of the transport dragons dragons which is about 15 tons over any distance.

2.We have hints that the further forward they get, the weaker their magic becomes. This would have serious implications for the battle dragons breath weapons. It would mean that the infantry and field dragons wouldn't work. And any transport dependent upon magic would be curtailed. And those accumulators mentioned in the previous paragraph would suffer the same effects.

3.Obviously enough Ft. Salby isn't the bullet proof limit here. We also need to consider the more prosaic reality that Sharona is shipping troops forward as well as extending its railhead. In fact a counterattack that may well trap Harshu is already in the works. Magic could well work beyond Ft. Salby, but the thought I am offering is that if the magic is truly weakening, then when Arcanans got past the point where it ran out, their logistics would be severely curtailed and their weapons would be reduced to those arbalasts their infantry carries since they are depending upon magic for everything else.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Is Ft. Salby Arcanan high water mark? (potentially spoil
Post by EdThomas   » Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:35 pm

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n7axw wrote:SNIP
2.We have hints that the further forward they get, the weaker their magic becomes. This would have serious implications for the battle dragons breath weapons. It would mean that the infantry and field dragons wouldn't work. And any transport dependent upon magic would be curtailed. And those accumulators mentioned in the previous paragraph would suffer the same effects.
Snip
Don

Hi Don,
I know they've got serious accumulator problems but what are the hints their magic is weakening. This wouldn't be the first time I've blown by something significant. :)
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Re: Is Ft. Salby Arcanan high water mark? (potentially spoil
Post by Eagleeye   » Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:59 pm

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EdThomas wrote:
n7axw wrote:SNIP
2.We have hints that the further forward they get, the weaker their magic becomes. This would have serious implications for the battle dragons breath weapons. It would mean that the infantry and field dragons wouldn't work. And any transport dependent upon magic would be curtailed. And those accumulators mentioned in the previous paragraph would suffer the same effects.
Snip
Don

Hi Don,
I know they've got serious accumulator problems but what are the hints their magic is weakening. This wouldn't be the first time I've blown by something significant. :)


As far as I remember it was either in the last Arcana-related chapters of HHNF or here in the new snippets, that someone mentioned a concern about the weakening of magic. And the 2 Sharonians on their way to Arcana mentioned that their talents went weaker, too ... (back in HHNF)
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Re: Is Ft. Salby Arcanan high water mark? (potentially spoil
Post by Thorby   » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:58 am

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Talents weaken as Sharonans approach Arcana, e.g. weakening of marriage bond. Magic weakens as the Arcanans approach Sharona, e.g. control of gryphons weakens. The question in my mind is whether the genes that control Talents or Magic are the same, and manifest differently depending on the environment. If so, then as the Sharonans approach Arcana, they may develop the ability to use magic, and vice versa.

What doesn't fit in this scenario is the vision of death and destruction by magic in Sharona.
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Re: Is Ft. Salby Arcanan high water mark? (potentially spoil
Post by n7axw   » Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:17 am

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Thorby wrote:Talents weaken as Sharonans approach Arcana, e.g. weakening of marriage bond. Magic weakens as the Arcanans approach Sharona, e.g. control of gryphons weakens. The question in my mind is whether the genes that control Talents or Magic are the same, and manifest differently depending on the environment. If so, then as the Sharonans approach Arcana, they may develop the ability to use magic, and vice versa.

What doesn't fit in this scenario is the vision of death and destruction by magic in Sharona.


That was part of the Calibrith (sp) glimpse, iirc. Those glimpses a potential future that is not absolute and may be averted by human action and choices just as Janike could have averted his own death by moving away from Ft. Salby before the attack.

Then too, the vision to which you refer might not refer to an event in Sharona at all. It could be on one of Sharona's colony universes.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Is Ft. Salby Arcanan high water mark? (potentially spoil
Post by bkwormlisa   » Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:34 am

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We know from HHNF that Talents weaken as they approach Arcana. The Arcanan advance was worrying about their gryphon control spells, though I think that's the only textev of a problem. We know that there are Arcanans with Talent (Thalmayr is strongly Talented and doesn't know it).

Aside from textev, in at least one interview DW has said that the physics is different on each of their homeworlds, and the more people live in a universe (and the longer they are there), the more the physics of that universe tilts towards theirs. He said that speed of light is instantaneous in Sharona, but I don't remember if he gave any other details on how the physics is different. So while he may or may not have outright said magic will weaken (I can't find the interview, darn it), the evidence is pretty strong.

And if I remember correctly, Zindel was Glimpsing dragons attacking something, possibly a Sharonian town or city. I don't think anything about the Glimpse said that town was in their home universe. It could have been a colony a fair ways out.
EdThomas wrote:
n7axw wrote:SNIP
2.We have hints that the further forward they get, the weaker their magic becomes. This would have serious implications for the battle dragons breath weapons. It would mean that the infantry and field dragons wouldn't work. And any transport dependent upon magic would be curtailed. And those accumulators mentioned in the previous paragraph would suffer the same effects.
Snip
Don

Hi Don,
I know they've got serious accumulator problems but what are the hints their magic is weakening. This wouldn't be the first time I've blown by something significant. :)
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Re: Is Ft. Salby Arcanan high water mark? (potentially spoil
Post by n7axw   » Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:21 am

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So far those dragons have attacked only forts or military encampments. So the glimpse is unfulfilled at this point...

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Is Ft. Salby Arcanan high water mark? (potentially spoil
Post by Thorby   » Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:08 am

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If Talents work poorly in Arcana, and Magic works poorly in Sharona, but both work well in the universes around Hell's Gate; then this makes Hell's Gate even more valuable real estate.
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Re: Is Ft. Salby Arcanan high water mark? (potentially spoil
Post by EdThomas   » Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:45 am

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bkwormlisa wrote:SNIP
Aside from textev, in at least one interview DW has said that the physics is different on each of their homeworlds, and the more people live in a universe (and the longer they are there), the more the physics of that universe tilts towards theirs. He said that speed of light is instantaneous in Sharona, but I don't remember if he gave any other details on how the physics is different. So while he may or may not have outright said magic will weaken (I can't find the interview, darn it), the evidence is pretty strong.
SNIP

I hope you can find that interview!! :)
The instantaneous speed of light is interesting. I recall reading somewhere (Scientific American?) that physicists have been able to produce instantaneous data transfers between molecules (molecule A acquired the characteristics of molecule B) across the Atlantic. I don't recall the name of the process. That's the only occurrence I've ever heard of anything being "instantaneous".
Maybe one of the more knowledgeable folks here in the Forum could expand on the consequence(s) of light being instantaneous. This geography major has a feeling it would be major but I have no idea what the consequence(s) would be.
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Re: Is Ft. Salby Arcanan high water mark? (potentially spoil
Post by n7axw   » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:14 pm

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Thorby wrote:If Talents work poorly in Arcana, and Magic works poorly in Sharona, but both work well in the universes around Hell's Gate; then this makes Hell's Gate even more valuable real estate.


The implications would favor Sharona pretty heavily. They would lose their Talents on Arcana. But that would primarily effect communications. Sharona's rifles, artillery and transportation should be just fine, whereas the same cannot be said of Arcana on Sharona.


Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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