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The Calirath Talent-Spoilers

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The Calirath Talent-Spoilers
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:15 am

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Legend has it that the Calirath Talent was the first Talent observed in Sharona. From this Talent all others were derived. We do know that some portions of the Calirath Talent can be or perhaps must be activated to manifest. Text suggests that there are other Talents associated with the Caliraths that can be activated. One of those talents is remarkably close to Arthag's Talent of reading people. How broad are the sorts of talents that can be activated? I suspect that some degree of native Talent must exist, but even that describes a significant pool of people from which to draw.

If this war continues, will the Caliraths activate more precognitive Talents? Will we see more imperial cousins commanding military forces and using activated Calirath Talents?

1000 Toralk's reaction in this last snippet suggests that Arcanan magic has nothing that compares with the Calirath Glimpse and its derivative fugue state. Assuming it is possible, having even weak Talented Calirath cousins contributing at or near the front lines will be a significant benefit.
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Re: The Calirath Talent-Spoilers
Post by bkwormlisa   » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:06 pm

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As I recall, legend is that Erthain the Great was the source of all Talents. We do know that Talents did originate in Ternathia, but Zindel has some doubts about the legend. Still, RFC has now said that Erthain had an extremely powerful Glimpse Talent, so it's possible that was indeed the first Talent. It's also possible he had all of them, though I doubt that. It would imply that every single Talented person is descended from him, and I don't expect that. More likely, he was one of the pioneers that learned to use Talents and worked out the basics, then taught others with the raw ability that didn't know it. All of which were supposedly Ternathians, which is a very interesting fact (if true).

It would be very useful to have more Glimpsers, but doing that would tell the world that it's possible. Given how long they've kept it a secret, the Caliraths are going to be very reluctant to do so, even if they never tell anyone how it's done. I suspect the Arcanans would have to get a lot closer to Sharona before they would give up that knowledge.
PeterZ wrote:Legend has it that the Calirath Talent was the first Talent observed in Sharona. From this Talent all others were derived. We do know that some portions of the Calirath Talent can be or perhaps must be activated to manifest. Text suggests that there are other Talents associated with the Caliraths that can be activated. One of those talents is remarkably close to Arthag's Talent of reading people. How broad are the sorts of talents that can be activated? I suspect that some degree of native Talent must exist, but even that describes a significant pool of people from which to draw.

If this war continues, will the Caliraths activate more precognitive Talents? Will we see more imperial cousins commanding military forces and using activated Calirath Talents?

1000 Toralk's reaction in this last snippet suggests that Arcanan magic has nothing that compares with the Calirath Glimpse and its derivative fugue state. Assuming it is possible, having even weak Talented Calirath cousins contributing at or near the front lines will be a significant benefit.
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Re: The Calirath Talent-Spoilers
Post by PeterZ   » Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:58 am

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bkwormlisa wrote:As I recall, legend is that Erthain the Great was the source of all Talents. We do know that Talents did originate in Ternathia, but Zindel has some doubts about the legend. Still, RFC has now said that Erthain had an extremely powerful Glimpse Talent, so it's possible that was indeed the first Talent. It's also possible he had all of them, though I doubt that. It would imply that every single Talented person is descended from him, and I don't expect that. More likely, he was one of the pioneers that learned to use Talents and worked out the basics, then taught others with the raw ability that didn't know it. All of which were supposedly Ternathians, which is a very interesting fact (if true).

It would be very useful to have more Glimpsers, but doing that would tell the world that it's possible. Given how long they've kept it a secret, the Caliraths are going to be very reluctant to do so, even if they never tell anyone how it's done. I suspect the Arcanans would have to get a lot closer to Sharona before they would give up that knowledge.


I am not so sure the complete truth has to come out. We know that some of the Talents associated with the Calirath's can be turned on. We also know that Calirath retainers have some rare and useful Talents. They might be something that is turned on or simply selected for from retainer family groups. If like the Calirath Talent and they can be activated somehow, then it might well be that all Talents might be activated to some degree. The ones we see manifested in Sharonans are simply those Talents that the individual has the strongest natural affinity to.

If that is the case, the activation process for the more common and well known Talents can still be performed as part of joining the military without advertising it. Activating all or parts of the Calirath Talent would never be mentioned. However, it would surprise no one if the Imperial cousins were to volunteer for the military and that they would be very good with their intuition. It would also surprise no one that those cousins would find themselves in staff positions.

I suspect that the only limiting thing is the impact on the story. Having someone in the battle that can model human decisions as they impact the future is close to a God weapon. Of course, if the information gets out or the Arcanans suspect, the modeling becomes that much more difficult.
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Re: The Calirath Talent-Spoilers
Post by runsforcelery   » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:38 pm

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Reflect.

If you are a dynasty which has ruled for thousands of years without making the Calirath Talent more broadly available (assuming that is possible), why might that be? Has there never been a time in Sharonian history when having perhaps a couple of dozen potential Glimpse sources organized and ready might have granted a critical advantage to the Winged Crown? I would submit that it's a statistical certainty that such moments have arisen, yet it's never been done.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, might there have been a reason for that [he wondered inoccently]? :roll: :twisted:


PeterZ wrote:
bkwormlisa wrote:As I recall, legend is that Erthain the Great was the source of all Talents. We do know that Talents did originate in Ternathia, but Zindel has some doubts about the legend. Still, RFC has now said that Erthain had an extremely powerful Glimpse Talent, so it's possible that was indeed the first Talent. It's also possible he had all of them, though I doubt that. It would imply that every single Talented person is descended from him, and I don't expect that. More likely, he was one of the pioneers that learned to use Talents and worked out the basics, then taught others with the raw ability that didn't know it. All of which were supposedly Ternathians, which is a very interesting fact (if true).

It would be very useful to have more Glimpsers, but doing that would tell the world that it's possible. Given how long they've kept it a secret, the Caliraths are going to be very reluctant to do so, even if they never tell anyone how it's done. I suspect the Arcanans would have to get a lot closer to Sharona before they would give up that knowledge.


I am not so sure the complete truth has to come out. We know that some of the Talents associated with the Calirath's can be turned on. We also know that Calirath retainers have some rare and useful Talents. They might be something that is turned on or simply selected for from retainer family groups. If like the Calirath Talent and they can be activated somehow, then it might well be that all Talents might be activated to some degree. The ones we see manifested in Sharonans are simply those Talents that the individual has the strongest natural affinity to.

If that is the case, the activation process for the more common and well known Talents can still be performed as part of joining the military without advertising it. Activating all or parts of the Calirath Talent would never be mentioned. However, it would surprise no one if the Imperial cousins were to volunteer for the military and that they would be very good with their intuition. It would also surprise no one that those cousins would find themselves in staff positions.

I suspect that the only limiting thing is the impact on the story. Having someone in the battle that can model human decisions as they impact the future is close to a God weapon. Of course, if the information gets out or the Arcanans suspect, the modeling becomes that much more difficult.


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: The Calirath Talent-Spoilers
Post by Knightfire   » Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:29 pm

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My assumption for the failure to spread the Calirath Talent wider even at a great need is the feedback that might be caused by two many people using Glimpses to alter decisions. In other series by other authors a common problem of precog talents is that when more then one such talent is working it makes it that much harder for the other precogs to see the future.

Think about it. One precog changes a decision from a glimpse might invalidate another procog's vision and the more people you have getting glimpses the more complicated and harder to see what would happen in the future.

There is a really good reason to just keep it in the imperial family. Now keeping it secret like they have. I'm not so sure about it unless they were willing to kill or have some talent to wipe memories or knowledge because you would think some cadet branch would have let the cat out of the bag.
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Re: The Calirath Talent-Spoilers
Post by runsforcelery   » Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:05 pm

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Nope. Not the reason. :twisted:


Knightfire wrote:My assumption for the failure to spread the Calirath Talent wider even at a great need is the feedback that might be caused by two many people using Glimpses to alter decisions. In other series by other authors a common problem of precog talents is that when more then one such talent is working it makes it that much harder for the other precogs to see the future.

Think about it. One precog changes a decision from a glimpse might invalidate another procog's vision and the more people you have getting glimpses the more complicated and harder to see what would happen in the future.

There is a really good reason to just keep it in the imperial family. Now keeping it secret like they have. I'm not so sure about it unless they were willing to kill or have some talent to wipe memories or knowledge because you would think some cadet branch would have let the cat out of the bag.


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: The Calirath Talent-Spoilers
Post by pushmar   » Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:59 pm

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runsforcelery wrote:Nope. Not the reason. :twisted:


Okay, so if a Calirath prince and his sibs have the talent, when said prince becomes King, do his sibs lost it as well? How about his cousins? If so, maybe the talent relies on some sort of arcane artifact in the royal household to activate it in those who are of the Calirath dynasty. Maybe they all wear a ring, or a jewel, or maybe they're all given a potion at birth?

BY the way, reading about the Caliraths always makes me think of Strauss' Kaiser-Walzer (Emperor's Waltz). :D
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Re: The Calirath Talent-Spoilers
Post by Astelon   » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:35 am

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I suspect that the Caliraths don't want widespread use of their glimpses. Such dissemination of their talent could all to easily lead to disaster. I would also suspect that the talent played a role in the Caliraths gaining the Ternathian crown. They would likely remember the circumstances, and wouldn't want it repeated, this time against them.

As such only primary members of the family's main branch (those who sit on the throne) and the heir and heir secondary have the talent activated. This limits those who pose that particular threat, and the empire has always survived not having more people who can Glimpse the future.
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Re: The Calirath Talent-Spoilers
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:00 am

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Astelon wrote:I suspect that the Caliraths don't want widespread use of their glimpses. Such dissemination of their talent could all to easily lead to disaster. I would also suspect that the talent played a role in the Caliraths gaining the Ternathian crown. They would likely remember the circumstances, and wouldn't want it repeated, this time against them.

As such only primary members of the family's main branch (those who sit on the throne) and the heir and heir secondary have the talent activated. This limits those who pose that particular threat, and the empire has always survived not having more people who can Glimpse the future.


I concur. An opponent to a Calirath Emperor/ess with the Calirath Talent is a very capable threat. Also, the Calirath Talent has been associated with the protective philosophy of the House of Calirath. Had Chava gained access to the Calirath Talent, the ability to see the future would be seen as a seriously threatening ability by the common folk.

Still, that means other Talents might be turned on. If Erthain's Talent spawned all the other Talents, it very likely is that some abilities can be awakened just as the Calirath Talent can be awakened. I wonder if precognitive farseerers is such a Talent?
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Re: The Calirath Talent-Spoilers
Post by Mil-tech bard   » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:20 am

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I suspect there is a certain amount of training required to both activate the Calirath talent and most especially deal with the activated Calirath Talent without insanity breaking out.

Such techniques and training are Calirath House secrets.

Both of the above are in the Calirath "top secret burn before reading" close hold bubble that the Calirath House internal security talents maintain.
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