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Stopping the Sharonan advance

"Hell's Gate" and "Hell Hath No Fury", by David, Linda Evans, and Joelle Presby, take the clash of science and magic to a whole new dimension...join us in a friendly discussion of this engrossing series!
Re: Stopping the Sharonan advance
Post by n7axw   » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:31 pm

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PeterZ wrote:It depends on motivation. If Sharona remains convinced the Arcanans are brutal barbarians, they will spend decades taking universe after universe away from Arcana. At one point the Arcanans break out WMDs. Until then I suspect Sharona will remain motivated to fight and take universes from Arcana.


My thought is that everyone gets tired of the expenditure of lives and resourses for little tangible gain. Eventually that does get old. In this case what's another universe or two when you haven't successfully exploited the ones you already have...

Most multigenerational wars have the antagonists living in fairly close proximity.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Stopping the Sharonan advance
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:49 pm

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In this case, Don, the casus belli will not fade. Voices have eidetic memory replaying Shaylar's death for new viewers is brings the reasons for war front and center for any new generation. The same is true for the child Voice if not more so.

Assuming time alone will make things better is less true in these circumstances than in those we are familiar with.

n7axw wrote:
PeterZ wrote:It depends on motivation. If Sharona remains convinced the Arcanans are brutal barbarians, they will spend decades taking universe after universe away from Arcana. At one point the Arcanans break out WMDs. Until then I suspect Sharona will remain motivated to fight and take universes from Arcana.


My thought is that everyone gets tired of the expenditure of lives and resourses for little tangible gain. Eventually that does get old. In this case what's another universe or two when you haven't successfully exploited the ones you already have...

Most multigenerational wars have the antagonists living in fairly close proximity.

Don
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Re: Stopping the Sharonan advance
Post by Howard T. Map-addict   » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:12 pm

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And then there is the matter that neither of their
Magic/Talent Systems, and maybe even their technology,
will work in the other's home universe, or in the
several universes close to it.
That will cause an invasion to fizzle!

But what would happen if a Portal opens that
connects New Sharona with New Arcana?
If they can't Magic or Shoot, they can at least wrestle!
Sharonan artillery shells cross through Portals on a
ballistic trajectory. Arcanans might re-invent the
catapult to throw rocks.

HTM

n7axw wrote:{snip - htm}
Both sides are too far away from the other's
home universe to decisively project force into the
other's home base. Raids, perhaps yes. But effective
invasion, no. The difficulty of sustaining
logistics that far at their current tech level
will defeat any attempt to maintain forces
large enough to conduct an invasion.

The image going through my mind is Napoleon's invasion of Russia and retreat from Moscow.

What do the rest of you think? Am I wrong?

Don
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Re: Stopping the Sharonan advance
Post by Howard T. Map-addict   » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:18 pm

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Yes, indeed!

Except that the report of Shaylar's death has been
greatly exaggerated. She is still alive, and Jathmar too!
Returning them both alive and well to Sharona,
would reverse most (not all) of that effect.

OTOH, they could still die in Arcanan custody.
Warmongers would want them dead, especially Shaylar.
So a possible plot for a later book is
"The desperate struggle to take them home, alive!"

HTM

PeterZ wrote:In this case, Don, the casus belli will not fade. Voices have eidetic memory replaying Shaylar's death for new viewers is brings the reasons for war front and center for any new generation. The same is true for the child Voice if not more so.

Assuming time alone will make things better is less true in these circumstances than in those we are familiar with.

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Re: Stopping the Sharonan advance
Post by SYED   » Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:18 pm

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Was there an explanation for the weakening of abilities? If tgey can ve weakened, they can be strengthejed. Is it me or it the fact that each side has a fifth of tveir ability touched by tgeir power.
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Re: Stopping the Sharonan advance
Post by n7axw   » Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:28 pm

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Howard T. Map-addict wrote:And then there is the matter that neither of their
Magic/Talent Systems, and maybe even their technology,
will work in the other's home universe, or in the
several universes close to it.
That will cause an invasion to fizzle!

But what would happen if a Portal opens that
connects New Sharona with New Arcana?
If they can't Magic or Shoot, they can at least wrestle!
Sharonan artillery shells cross through Portals on a
ballistic trajectory. Arcanans might re-invent the
catapult to throw rocks.

HTM



While we are fantasizing, let's make it entertaining... mud wrestling with loser treating the winner to a beer. Call it cross-cultural exchange... even better than ping pong! :twisted:

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Stopping the Sharonan advance
Post by Mil-tech bard   » Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:30 pm

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There is also the matter of the Pearl Harbor-like attack from peace negotiations that killed the Calirath Crown Prince at Ft Salby.



Howard T. Map-addict wrote:Yes, indeed!

Except that the report of Shaylar's death has been
greatly exaggerated. She is still alive, and Jathmar too!
Returning them both alive and well to Sharona,
would reverse most (not all) of that effect.

OTOH, they could still die in Arcanan custody.
Warmongers would want them dead, especially Shaylar.
So a possible plot for a later book is
"The desperate struggle to take them home, alive!"

HTM

PeterZ wrote:In this case, Don, the casus belli will not fade. Voices have eidetic memory replaying Shaylar's death for new viewers is brings the reasons for war front and center for any new generation. The same is true for the child Voice if not more so.

Assuming time alone will make things better is less true in these circumstances than in those we are familiar with.

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Re: Stopping the Sharonan advance
Post by Keith_w   » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:00 pm

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SYED wrote:Was there an explanation for the weakening of abilities? If tgey can ve weakened, they can be strengthejed. Is it me or it the fact that each side has a fifth of tveir ability touched by tgeir power.


Yes, according to RFC, universes start out neutral. The longer the universe is occupied by one side or another, the more the balance tilts to that form of physics. As the balance tilts one way or the other, the other physics becomes less possible. Even if a universe was occupied by one side for some time, if the other side occupies it long enough, the physics will swing that way. As I recall, I have this information from the interview.
--
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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Re: Stopping the Sharonan advance
Post by brnicholas   » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:12 pm

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I have a great deal of difficulty seeing a negotiated settlement to this war in the natural lifetime of Andrin Calirath. I think that between them mul Gurthak and Harshu have burned that bridge, dynamited its foundations, and sown fields of trap spells on both banks and in the river to keep anyone from rebuilding it.

The only way I can imagine such a thing happening is if Shylar and Jathmar are standing on Sharona arguing that the Arcana government can be trusted before negotiations start. That requires the Arcanans to return them to Sharona and given the military advantage Shylar and Jathmar's knowledge will give Sharona that is a desperation move I can't see any Arcanan government making (even one completely dominated by the Olderhans).

Nicholas
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Re: Stopping the Sharonan advance
Post by Astelon   » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:39 pm

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There is also the possibility of a stalemate. The result would be a mutual glaring contest across the border (portal), possibly with the occasional incident. A sort of cold war with less spies and more artillery, and no roome to maneuver against your opponents.

Consider the swamp portal as the ideal place. Sharona has severe difficulty crossing the swamp without air cover, and Arcana can't force the small portal in the face of superior Sharonian firepower. As for negotiations Arcana demands access to the cluster while Sharona refuses because of the bad acts of Arcana's military. No agreement is reached because neither side trusts the other.

Both sides look for opportunities to get through the enemies lines, researching new weapons and techniques. Eventually they settle down into an uneasy coexistence, helped be the fact that they can't do much damage to the economy and manufacturing of the other.
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