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Thoughts about upcoming events in the Multiverse....

"Hell's Gate" and "Hell Hath No Fury", by David, Linda Evans, and Joelle Presby, take the clash of science and magic to a whole new dimension...join us in a friendly discussion of this engrossing series!
bullet trains re: upcoming in Multiverse....
Post by Howard T. Map-addict   » Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:40 am

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The French and Japanese have bullet trains that reach
200 MPH, between Paris-Marseilles and Tokyo-Kyoto.

HTM

Jaxomfaux wrote:[snip]
another brief thought, anyone know what the current speed of a train is? don't ours only go around 80-90 for our bullet trains? their paladins are supposed to go easily over a 100 with massive loads
[snip]
sorry, just a few musings.
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Re: Thoughts about upcoming events in the Multiverse....
Post by WLBjork   » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:17 am

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Definitely.

I'm not that clear on US loco designs, but the British company Great Western Railway had a 4-4-0 design back in 1904 that was clocked at 100mph (3440 "City of Truro"). This would not have been capable of sustaining such speeds, and with only 4 driving wheels would have not been able to carry that large a load.

A few years later, Pacific (4-6-2) designs were becoming increasingly popular on express trains - mainly due to their high load capacity coupled with good speed.

Sir Nigel Gresley of London and North Eastern Railway designed the A1 class (4472 "Flying Scotsman" is the best known example - and the first officially exceeding 100mph), which was later replaced by the A3 class (A1s were upgraded to this standard), then streamlined versions were introduced as the A4 class. It is an A4 (6648 "Mallard") that holds the current record for steam speed at 126mph.

I'll also mention William Stanier's Princess Coronation class Pacifics here. Built to the largest possible loading guage on the London, Midland and Scotland company's lines, they were the most powerful steam locomotives in Britain. It is unknown exactly how powerful they were, as they were all hand fired - what is known is that they regularly exceeded 3000hp, and on one memorable occasion achieved 3300hp.
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Re: Thoughts about upcoming events in the Multiverse....
Post by tinfoil   » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:25 pm

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Clearly, the laws of physics/magic vary between these fictional universes, and we have had authorial comment that OUR universe's rules do not necessarily precisely apply to Sharona, Arcana, or points in-between. It WOULD appear that the 'delta' between linked universes is small, with differences accumulating as more gates are traversed.

So, we we know for sure that a WWI-era Fokker would even be able to fly over Sharona?

Who says that atomic reactions involving U235 or P239 would result in a fission chain reaction in Archana?

Is is certain that a Sharonian gunpowder rifle will fire in Archana, or that the reaction would have the identical violence?

Will the metabolisms of the Archanian 'gene-mods' even sustain life on our earth or Sharona?


There's LOTS of wiggle-room left in how the authors treat these 'rules'. I am not sure if detailed conjectures will be fruitful.
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Re: Thoughts about upcoming events in the Multiverse....
Post by NormH   » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:38 pm

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Going on 5 years now with out a follow up book. I see that Mr. Weber is working on book 6 of the SafeHold books. That entire series is moving at a snail pace.
We were advised that Ms Evens was working on the 3d book of this series.
I hope that soon (like within the next year or so), we see another chapter of this wonderful series.
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Re: Thoughts about upcoming events in the Multiverse....
Post by Jaxomfaux   » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:30 am

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NormH wrote:Going on 5 years now with out a follow up book. I see that Mr. Weber is working on book 6 of the SafeHold books. That entire series is moving at a snail pace.
We were advised that Ms Evens was working on the 3d book of this series.
I hope that soon (like within the next year or so), we see another chapter of this wonderful series.


would be nice.

also i see that my train knowledge is lacking :D

as for the "rules" of the universe the only thing that seems to be in variance is the gifted/talented. which makes me think sharona would have an edge. however as you pointed out, it seems that way right now. doesn't mean it is.
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Re: bullet trains re: upcoming in Multiverse....
Post by Brom O'Berin   » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:45 pm

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I have ridden Japan, Korean and Taiwan trains. If desired, the bullet trains could be faster, but have been limited to 180-200 MPH range by other operational concerns. The larger costs are in acceleration and deceleration, so while operating at cruise as long as possible is desired, getting to a higher cruise is more expensive. Avoiding noticeable G forces on passengers means acceleration/deceleration takes both time and track space, so the actual amount of time at cruise between stops is limited - increasing cruise speed results in double the reduction in time at cruise, as the Cost/speed line is an increasing curve.

Howard T. Map-addict wrote:The French and Japanese have bullet trains that reach
200 MPH, between Paris-Marseilles and Tokyo-Kyoto.

HTM

Jaxomfaux wrote:[snip]
another brief thought, anyone know what the current speed of a train is? don't ours only go around 80-90 for our bullet trains? their paladins are supposed to go easily over a 100 with massive loads
[snip]
sorry, just a few musings.
Top
Re: Thoughts about upcoming events in the Multiverse....
Post by rakenan   » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:44 am

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Arcana has several advantages that Sharona cannot really copy, and the strategic depth to put them into practice. Notably, I'm pretty sure that Mythala has been at least working on mapping human genetics to create super-mages, or possibly purge the mage genome from non-Mythalans with a disease.

Assuming they fail to take over (and we know what assume means), the practical expertise they gain will be priceless in the war against Sharona - because the Sharonan mental gifts are also genetic, so potentially Arcana can add them to their arsenal relatively quickly if and when the taboo against human genetic engineering is broken by Mythala.

The second advantage is that Arcana can in theory learn to copy all the technology of Sharona except the psychic powers. Sharona can learn to *USE* Arcanan spellware, but cannot make it, because they lack mages and the ability to alter genetics to gain mages.

As things stand, however, Sharona has almost all of the advantages except size. They have better communication, they are less likely to explode into an apocalyptic civil war at any moment, and their weapons do not appear to have trivially easy countermeasures. They also seem less prone to grossly underestimate their foes because they are doctrinaire fanatics whose core belief is in their own supremacy, which is a major problem for every area of Arcana influenced by Mythala.
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Re: Thoughts about upcoming events in the Multiverse....
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:32 am

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You assume that the genetics leading to mages and mental prowess are different. That is not confirmed. It may be that the genetics that lead to mages in Arcana and those universes closer to the Arcana end of the spectrum lead to the mental prowess of Sharona in the Sharona end of the spectrum.

Perhaps the reason the universes are different is that the have different levels of affinity to one pole or the other. That physics acts differently to the mind along the Arcana-Sharona spectrum.

rakenan wrote:Arcana has several advantages that Sharona cannot really copy, and the strategic depth to put them into practice. Notably, I'm pretty sure that Mythala has been at least working on mapping human genetics to create super-mages, or possibly purge the mage genome from non-Mythalans with a disease.

Assuming they fail to take over (and we know what assume means), the practical expertise they gain will be priceless in the war against Sharona - because the Sharonan mental gifts are also genetic, so potentially Arcana can add them to their arsenal relatively quickly if and when the taboo against human genetic engineering is broken by Mythala.

The second advantage is that Arcana can in theory learn to copy all the technology of Sharona except the psychic powers. Sharona can learn to *USE* Arcanan spellware, but cannot make it, because they lack mages and the ability to alter genetics to gain mages.

As things stand, however, Sharona has almost all of the advantages except size. They have better communication, they are less likely to explode into an apocalyptic civil war at any moment, and their weapons do not appear to have trivially easy countermeasures. They also seem less prone to grossly underestimate their foes because they are doctrinaire fanatics whose core belief is in their own supremacy, which is a major problem for every area of Arcana influenced by Mythala.
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Re: Thoughts about upcoming events in the Multiverse....
Post by Howard T. Map-addict   » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:36 am

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Rakenan, I see that this is your First Post.
Welcome to David Weber's Forum!

The Arcanan advantages you cite are, as you say,
long-term. We do not know how long a story-arc DW
(David Weber) originally intended. Two of his
universes (Honorverse and Safehold) have arcs
measured in centuries. The others he has kept short,
deliberately, for lack of writing time.

As you say next, assumptions are dangerous.
It is particularly dangerous to guess how an author
means to guide his plot. There are so many posibilites!
We readers can see how a story might go, how it Ought
to go, and then the author overlooks what is obvious
to us, and does something entirely different!
Weber is particularly tricky in these matters.

About the likelyhood of Sharona exploding "into an
apocalyptic civil war ..." at the particular moment
that book 2 ended, the Emperor of Uromathia (= China)
was plotting just such a thing.
Arcana, OTOH, is aware of the danger. We do not know
what measures they take to guard against it, but we
do know that the Mythalian conspirators find it
necesssary to be Very Very Sneaky.

But it may be years before the story advances further,
because Linda Evans is reported to be in poor health,
and DW is attending to other stories. (:(

The more fans this series has, the more likely it is
to resume. You are Very Much Welcome Here, Rakenan!

Howard True Map-addict

rakenan wrote:Arcana has several advantages that Sharona cannot really copy, and the strategic depth to put them into practice. Notably, I'm pretty sure that Mythala has been at least working on mapping human genetics to create super-mages, or possibly purge the mage genome from non-Mythalans with a disease.

Assuming they fail to take over (and we know what assume means), the practical expertise they gain will be priceless in the war against Sharona - because the Sharonan mental gifts are also genetic, so potentially Arcana can add them to their arsenal relatively quickly if and when the taboo against human genetic engineering is broken by Mythala.

The second advantage is that Arcana can in theory learn to copy all the technology of Sharona except the psychic powers. Sharona can learn to *USE* Arcanan spellware, but cannot make it, because they lack mages and the ability to alter genetics to gain mages.

As things stand, however, Sharona has almost all of the advantages except size. They have better communication, they are less likely to explode into an apocalyptic civil war at any moment, and their weapons do not appear to have trivially easy countermeasures. They also seem less prone to grossly underestimate their foes because they are doctrinaire fanatics whose core belief is in their own supremacy, which is a major problem for every area of Arcana influenced by Mythala.
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Re: Thoughts about upcoming events in the Multiverse....
Post by Jonathan_S   » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:42 pm

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rakenan wrote:Arcana has several advantages that Sharona cannot really copy, and the strategic depth to put them into practice. Notably, I'm pretty sure that Mythala has been at least working on mapping human genetics to create super-mages, or possibly purge the mage genome from non-Mythalans with a disease.

Assuming they fail to take over (and we know what assume means), the practical expertise they gain will be priceless in the war against Sharona - because the Sharonan mental gifts are also genetic, so potentially Arcana can add them to their arsenal relatively quickly if and when the taboo against human genetic engineering is broken by Mythala.

The second advantage is that Arcana can in theory learn to copy all the technology of Sharona except the psychic powers. Sharona can learn to *USE* Arcanan spellware, but cannot make it, because they lack mages and the ability to alter genetics to gain mages.

As things stand, however, Sharona has almost all of the advantages except size. They have better communication, they are less likely to explode into an apocalyptic civil war at any moment, and their weapons do not appear to have trivially easy countermeasures. They also seem less prone to grossly underestimate their foes because they are doctrinaire fanatics whose core belief is in their own supremacy, which is a major problem for every area of Arcana influenced by Mythala.
Even without those long term advantages Arcana has major advantages in tactical mobility.

It's hard to lock down a whole portal with enough AA guns to keep dragons from transiting it. Even with Procog the defense of that transit fort was a near run thing. And that was for a portal with restricted usable area because it was largely burried in a mountain.

Now that Arcana knows not to slam headfirst into fixed defenses how easily do you see that fort to hold if they use the dragons or dragon borne troops as cavalry or dragoons in and anti-supply role?

You might be able to armor and arm a train well enough to shoot its way through, but there's no way to protect the miles and miles of track. How long can the fort last if supplies are disrupted because the tracks and bridges and taken out and the repair crews are harrassed?

And withdrawing under dragon/gryphon harasment? Even if it's restricted to light weapons dropped from above AA range? Ugly.

Now counterbalancing that I don't know how well dragons can live off the land. That kind of deep raid is a lot harder to do if you keep having to run your own supplies through a defended portal chokepoint.


And of course the wildcard is the hints the each sides powers become compromised as they approach the other's home universe. Arcana is likely to be affected worse by that because all their tech relies on spells, whereas Sharonan's transportation and weapons are independant of their mental powers. It might well evolve into a stalemate were no matter what breakthroughs either side makes the breakdown in their special abilities makes it impossible to push through to the home universe of the other and force an end to the war.
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