Reflecting Upon RTH -- SPOILER THREAD

PeterZ wrote:

n7axw wrote:
Yeah, but it does have the makings of a thriller. Imagine Andrin having to get out of Tajvana before Chava's troops get there or having the Ternathian army arrive in the nick of time to foil the scheme...

Don

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I would rather the cavalry be Einathian marines called in by King Juni, Shurkalan dragoons redirected by a canny commander who recognized the Uromathian troop deployments and of course the combined Septs of Arpathia come to pay their respects to their new Emperor.

That works too!

Don

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One of those POVs conveyed the reaction of a senior Uromathian officer to the non-arrival of the other forces scheduled for his train: he wanted to turn around and go back.

That sounded to me rather more like he thought he was being left out of something than a response to buggered logistics. The more normal reaction to a cock-up would be to make some Voice calls to find out what was going on and who was fixing it. And if he did think he was being left out, that would suggest that he thought - or knew - that there was something to be left out of. Something nobody in good odor with Chava VII would want to miss.

PeterZ wrote:I actually don't think it was a screw up. The only POVs we have seen reactions to non-arrivals have been front line logistics personnel. We haven't seen Imperial Intelligence's reactions to the shift in forces. We haven't seen any shifts in non-Ternatihan units.

When things clarify in the next book, we will see just how much of an advantage Chava has squeezed out. I suspect it will not e nearly enough to accomplish his will.

Astelon wrote:First a note on Arcanan delayed activations spells. The existence of grenades seems to indicate that it is possible to do, but Arcana is still accepting the deaths of Gifted engineers to do demo work (the one that blew the hole on Fort Salby's walls died from falling debris). That indicates they can't do it in those cases. It might be a limitation on the amount of energy to be released, or maybe a control issue, but in either case it looks as if Arcana doesn't have a concept for bombs. Whether they can develop it is another matter, but it might not even be possible for their technology.

There is a reference in book 2 to "Combat trap spells" (magic landmines) which gives us another datapoint.

From Toralk's PoV
"He didn't know what the Sharonians called the devilish devices they'd buried around their defensive positions. He didn't even know—yet—how they worked, for that matter. But their effectiveness had already been made amply clear, and he expected them to have a significantly dampening effect on the ground troops' confidence.

Maybe not, he thought. I may be being overly pessimistic. It's not that much different from a combat trap spell, after all.

He watched the corpsmen making their quick yet cautious way towards the newest casualties and knew that there was, indeed, at least one very significant difference. The devices killing his men as they exploded were completely undetectable by any of the Army's trap-sweeping spells. They simply didn't register, since they didn't rely on any arcane technology at all, and that was the reason for the hesitancy he could already see in the gas-masked troops advancing cautiously through the Sharonian positions."

CanoeSage wrote:

Astelon wrote:First a note on Arcanan delayed activations spells. The existence of grenades seems to indicate that it is possible to do, but Arcana is still accepting the deaths of Gifted engineers to do demo work (the one that blew the hole on Fort Salby's walls died from falling debris). That indicates they can't do it in those cases. It might be a limitation on the amount of energy to be released, or maybe a control issue, but in either case it looks as if Arcana doesn't have a concept for bombs. Whether they can develop it is another matter, but it might not even be possible for their technology.

There is a reference in book 2 to "Combat trap spells" (magic landmines) which gives us another datapoint.

From Toralk's PoV
"He didn't know what the Sharonians called the devilish devices they'd buried around their defensive positions. He didn't even know—yet—how they worked, for that matter. But their effectiveness had already been made amply clear, and he expected them to have a significantly dampening effect on the ground troops' confidence.

Maybe not, he thought. I may be being overly pessimistic. It's not that much different from a combat trap spell, after all.

He watched the corpsmen making their quick yet cautious way towards the newest casualties and knew that there was, indeed, at least one very significant difference. The devices killing his men as they exploded were completely undetectable by any of the Army's trap-sweeping spells. They simply didn't register, since they didn't rely on any arcane technology at all, and that was the reason for the hesitancy he could already see in the gas-masked troops advancing cautiously through the Sharonian positions."

Nice catch, CanoeSage. That more or less establishes the possibility of delayed activation spells. Delivering them where they need to be might be a bit more dicey without a nonmagical means of delivery. I presume that Sharona would cover the Maritha side by mining it heavily as well as using razor wire, all covered by heavy artillery that can fire through the portal just fine.

Don

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n7axw wrote:
Nice catch, CanoeSage. That more or less establishes the possibility of delayed activation spells. Delivering them where they need to be might be a bit more dicey without a nonmagical means of delivery. I presume that Sharona would cover the Maritha side by mining it heavily as well as using razor wire, all covered by heavy artillery that can fire through the portal just fine.

Don

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Though if you just need to get something the size of a personal crystal through the portal you could try airborne delivery. A gryphon approaching at high speed cam be a tricky target; given that predictive far seeing doesn't work through a portal. And if you're delivering a WMD spell where close counts you could also approach directly at the infinitely thin edge of the portal and just swerve out at the last minute to lob the crystal through. That would give guns back behind the portal only seconds to react; against that kind of threat you either need defenses on the far side of the portal (where they may be vulnerable to non-delayed heavy attack spells) or you nee them far enough back from the portal that the attacker has to come through, into your killing zone, to deliver the spell far enough to reach you.

Jonathan_S wrote:

n7axw wrote:
Nice catch, CanoeSage. That more or less establishes the possibility of delayed activation spells. Delivering them where they need to be might be a bit more dicey without a nonmagical means of delivery. I presume that Sharona would cover the Maritha side by mining it heavily as well as using razor wire, all covered by heavy artillery that can fire through the portal just fine.

Don

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Though if you just need to get something the size of a personal crystal through the portal you could try airborne delivery. A gryphon approaching at high speed cam be a tricky target; given that predictive far seeing doesn't work through a portal. And if you're delivering a WMD spell where close counts you could also approach directly at the infinitely thin edge of the portal and just swerve out at the last minute to lob the crystal through. That would give guns back behind the portal only seconds to react; against that kind of threat you either need defenses on the far side of the portal (where they may be vulnerable to non-delayed heavy attack spells) or you nee them far enough back from the portal that the attacker has to come through, into your killing zone, to deliver the spell far enough to reach you.

That might work, although the distance viewers deployed on the right side of the portal could give the defenders time to react. But, still, your thought is a possibility.

Don

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This is a reflection on Velvelig and his escapees from Ft. Ghartoun, both Arcanan and Sharonian. Ultar, Sarma and the other Arcanans present have done the honorable thing and mutinied to put a stop to the abuse of prisoners. They have placed themselves under Velvelig's authority to escape to a different universe and stay alive rather then being killed and swept under the rug when the IG team arrives from Portalis.

The two sides have come to respect each other and Velvelig, at least, sees that the war didn't happen by consent of the government in Portalis, but through a local rogue element in Arcana's army. He is willing to work for a peaceful resolution to the conflict.

Now the Sharonians have retaken Hell's Gate and and Velvelig and his merry band can come out of hiding with Arcanans in tow. As what Velvelig has learned becomes common knowledge with the Sharonians, do we have the possibility of a raproachment here? It seems to me that Velvelig's story and its impact on the overall narrative is easy to overlook in the midst of everything else going on.

Don

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Unless Chava is using only the more loyal commanders for his coupe de main. We are after all talking about treason. Some commanders might well be too honorable, such as the Sun Lord at Fort Salby.

If any word got out, Chava's putsch would be revealed too soon.

Louis R wrote:One of those POVs conveyed the reaction of a senior Uromathian officer to the non-arrival of the other forces scheduled for his train: he wanted to turn around and go back.

That sounded to me rather more like he thought he was being left out of something than a response to buggered logistics. The more normal reaction to a cock-up would be to make some Voice calls to find out what was going on and who was fixing it. And if he did think he was being left out, that would suggest that he thought - or knew - that there was something to be left out of. Something nobody in good odor with Chava VII would want to miss.

PeterZ wrote:I actually don't think it was a screw up. The only POVs we have seen reactions to non-arrivals have been front line logistics personnel. We haven't seen Imperial Intelligence's reactions to the shift in forces. We haven't seen any shifts in non-Ternatihan units.

When things clarify in the next book, we will see just how much of an advantage Chava has squeezed out. I suspect it will not e nearly enough to accomplish his will.

Treason?
I daresay that the oaths of all Uromathan officers are to Chava.
Their duty to all Sharona goes through Chava.
I also dare to say that Chava believes, really and truly,
that Sharona's only competent leader is himself.

Even so, Chava would be wise to not involve Sunlord Markan
in his homeworld plots. Better let Markan add to the good
reputation he has earned at Salby. Then Chava can display
his own competence by appointing Markan his Outworlds Viceroy!

HTM

PeterZ wrote:Unless Chava is using only the more loyal commanders for his coupe de main. We are after all talking about treason. Some commanders might well be too honorable, such as the Sun Lord at Fort Salby.

Then was Markan mistaken when he accepted Janki as his Imperial Prince too? If he was not mistaken and Zindel's oath is accuate, then there is fealty to the Sharonan Crown by the Empire's citzens. Betraying that fealty is treason.

Howard T. Map-addict wrote:Treason?
I daresay that the oaths of all Uromathan officers are to Chava.
Their duty to all Sharona goes through Chava.
I also dare to say that Chava believes, really and truly,
that Sharona's only competent leader is himself.

Even so, Chava would be wise to not involve Sunlord Markan
in his homeworld plots. Better let Markan add to the good
reputation he has earned at Salby. Then Chava can display
his own competence by appointing Markan his Outworlds Viceroy!

HTM

PeterZ wrote:Unless Chava is using only the more loyal commanders for his coupe de main. We are after all talking about treason. Some commanders might well be too honorable, such as the Sun Lord at Fort Salby.