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Dahak vs Death Star

Fans of Colin Maclntyre and the great starship Dahak should take a minute to stop in here for discussions about one of David's best-loved series.
Re: Dahak vs Death Star
Post by thesupplantingking   » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:58 pm

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Kytheros wrote:
Emo Otaku wrote:If you could man the Death Star purely with Jedi it would maybe have a chance

"This is not the Battle Station you are looking for"

Nope. They wouldn't be able to react fast enough. Again, hyper missiles with gravitonic warheads curbstomp just about everything they can reach.

About the only thing that could hit Dahak, much less hurt him, before he blew it to pieces would be something like the Galaxy Gun, assuming he wasn't in the same system as it, or Centerpoint Station, again, assuming he wasn't in the same area as it. Or something else along those lines.


Nah I could what Emo Otaku was saying. After they sense the launch of the missiles through the force they start going into a state of denial on their impending doom.
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Re: Dahak vs Death Star
Post by firespier   » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:22 pm

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Well I would say easy question.
Dahak goes in Enchanach drice going a bit out of range and then fire that nasty littlee gravitonic warhead which was as starong as 6 Dahak-Class Enchanach drives together.
Given the fact that this power is enough to destoy a sun.
Well the Death star id done for or simpy dead ^^.
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Re: Dahak vs Death Star
Post by Imaginos1892   » Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:44 am

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Kytheros wrote:About the only thing that could hit Dahak, much less hurt him, before he blew it to pieces would be something like the Galaxy Gun, assuming he wasn't in the same system as it, or Centerpoint Station, again, assuming he wasn't in the same area as it. Or something else along those lines.


How about Doc Smith's Sunbeam? Place electrodes that turn an entire solar system into a giant vacuum tube, focusing the star's entire energy output into a beam weapon.
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Re: Dahak vs Death Star
Post by Emo Otaku   » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:32 am

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Imaginos1892 wrote:How about Doc Smith's Sunbeam? Place electrodes that turn an entire solar system into a giant vacuum tube, focusing the star's entire energy output into a beam weapon.


Just re-reading the EE 'Doc' Smith Skylark books,

They are mildly hilarious, even if some of the attitudes to race, gender etc are more than a little uncomfortable now, but they were a product of their time.
~~~~~~

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Re: Dahak vs Death Star
Post by briarhawk179   » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:28 pm

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Kytheros wrote:The reason Iapetus's pieces didn't hit Earth, or at least, not enough to matter would be because there were sixteen gravitonic warheads, carefully positioned to ensure that no dangerous chunks of Iapetus would go anywhere near Earth. That's what would normally be called overkill. In that case, it gets called being thorough.
Also, by shattering Iapetus into pieces, the combined impact force (assuming it all hit Earth/Earth's planetary shield) remain the same, but it would be spread out over a longer duration, and the individual impacts making up the entire event would be far below the amount required to punch through or overload the shields. And, if Iapetus's pieces are not hitting dead on, but are hitting obliquely, or would skip off the atmosphere ... then, well, you're looking at even less energy needed to prevent dangerous impacts. And if, as seems likely, the gravitonic warheads also imparted side vectors onto the pieces of Iapetus, some would miss altogether.

No dimensional shifting required.


The thing is there weren't any pieces of Iapetus to hit the Earth's shield. The book says (this is actually from the book) "Sixteen gravitonic warheads, each hundreds of times more powerful than anything Earth had boasted, flashed into destruction . . . and took the moon Iapetus with them." At one point either Horus or Colin said that a gravitonic warhead produced a short lived black hole. The black hole appears for an really short time, then disappears. There is no explosion, just a black hole sucking matter into it then vanishing.
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Re: Dahak vs Death Star
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:21 pm

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Michael Everett wrote:I know Dahak doesn't appear in it, but this clip may be thought-provoking...


(I hope my necromancy isn't frowned upon here.)

Look through the comments on that thread and you'll find:

http://gizmodo.com/who-would-win-in-an- ... 1676075613

It's not a fight at all, Trek weapons and sensors vastly outrange Wars sensors and weapons. So long as Trek weapons can scratch Wars ships it's a certain win for Trek because they can't be forced into the range of the Wars weapons.
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Re: Dahak vs Death Star
Post by WeberFan   » Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:53 pm

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Consider this just a vote:

Death Star = Troy (from John Ringo's "Live Free or Die."
http://www.baenebooks.com/p-1108-live-free-or-die.aspx
Dahak = Much, Much more.

Death Star = Light speed main battery
Dahak = supralight gravitonic missiles ("planetkillers") with light-speed secondary batteries and full shielding against energy weapons and missiles.

Dahak wins... Hands down...
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Re: Dahak vs Death Star
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:53 pm

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There's no contest here. Dahak wins. Likewise, the Enterprise beats the Death Star, also.

Most of the discussion on here comes down to firepower but that's not even relevant. Dahak and the Enterprise are capable of zipping around at relativistic speeds, the Enterprise can engage from light-seconds away, Dahak from light-minutes.

The Death Star, however, has one very slow firing weapon with perhaps a light-second of range and everything else probably can't light a candle at that range.

Thus the Death Star can't bring it's only real weapon to bear in anything other than an ambush scenario. Even if the Enterprise has no more range than the Death Star (something I don't think to be the case) the Enterprise still wins because it can run rings around the Death Star. That superlaser does nothing to the Enterprise that's run around 60 degrees off axis. The Enterprise's photon torpedoes (remember, they're matter and smaller than an X-wing) go though the Death Star's shields, though--and that's the end of the focusing dish for the superlaser. The Death Star is mission-killed on the first shot.

There was one mention of the sunbeam from the Lensman universe. Again, only a threat in an ambush scenario.

The purpose of the sunbeam was to crack the shields of an inert planet--a very slow, ponderous object. The sunbeam is just light, it's a lightspeed weapon fired at planetary ranges. It takes minutes to reach it's target--plenty of time for Dahak to dance out of the way.

The fleet is a different story. He can only kill a ship with a direct hit with a hyper missile, their primaries can slowly slice him to pieces. He can pop in, kill a planet and leave, though. Neither Ploor nor Eddore stand a chance, but Dahak can't finish the job at Eddore.

(On the other hand, the whole story collapses at Eddore anyway. The whole point of the Arisians manipulating humanity was to forge a weapon capable of cracking that final dome on Eddore--but the Arisians already had a weapon that could crack that dome: An N-space planet. Launch their mental attack just as a N-space planet wipes out the Eddorian's bodies and their shield generators.)
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Re: Dahak vs Death Star
Post by Tenshinai   » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:01 pm

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Brom O'Berin wrote:Easy answer - Dahak planetoid, handsdown.

Dahak is a warship, designed to go against and destroy other warships of her own (or equivalent) class, with anti-ship weapons and shields to stop opponent weapons.

Death Star is a moving fortress, designed as a terror weapon to destroy planets (ie stationary targets) if necessary with its one & only "main gun". Recall when the Death Stars fought the two rebel fleets, the primary offensive weapons were their "parasitic" fighters and/or accompanying fleet of warcraft. DS defenses were short-ranged, and seemed mostly anti-fighter. The DS is very much akin to a lightly armored vessel, with a very unique big gun that is only usable in limited circumstances.


Where on earth did you come up with the idea of "mostly anti-fighter"?

Do recall how in the original movie, when rebel fighters came in, they had to use fighters because the guns were made to hit BIGGER TARGETS.

Official loadout of the DS 2, 30000 big guns, 7500 antifighter weapons.

That´s the firepower of about 150 ISD I per "side", if assumed that all guns can fire either one way or the opposite.

It´s nasty powerful against ships and specifically WEAK against fighters.
The supergun just means it can oneshot kill anything, beyond what it can do with normal guns.
The supergun is NOT the "main gun", THAT is the TERROR weapon.

And likewise, where the heck did you get "lightly armored" from? It has enough shields to barely bother with aknowledging regular hostile ships.

The rebels attacked the DS with fighters because even a FLEET of capital ships were considered fishfood level of opposition.

Add in a single "main weapon"


Where DO people get these weird ideas?

vs the ability to spit out THOUSANDS of missiles of almost the same power in almost any direction, and I don't think the Death Star would last more than a few seconds at best.


That assumes that Dahak´s missiles actually work against the DS. Missiles tend to be somewhat ineffective in the SW universe.

Still, when you talk about weapons capable of shattering a planet, you can at least come up with a reasonable estimate. Such weapons have to be in fairly similar ranges of power, unless you want to start assuming one fictional universe has much more dense planets than the other... which is ludicrous on the face of things, since we're talking about two universes supposedly inhabited by apparently standard humans with the same level of tolerance for gravity. If you do want to pretend that, it's pure handwavium and likely wishful-thinking bull crap. If you don't, then the general weapon power levels must be essentially very similar.


Hardly! Even looking at existing superweapons in various fiction, there is a wide range of ways how they work, and THAT determines what power level is needed.
And that´s the part where the DS gets kinda scary, because unlike many other planet killers, it´s just pure raw firepower in insane amounts.

Yet at Kano, Dahak lurched "like a broken-masted galleon" despite taking at least two hits (likely more, given that at last count 20 missiles made it through the close-in defenses) from a later generation of gravitonic warhead than his own stocks... plus several antimatter warheads (which aren't exactly powerless in their own right) at essentially the same time. Even with less focus, I would be highly surprised if three or four of those gravitonic weapons were not at least as much raw energy as the Death Star's superlaser. Add in the other ~15 antimatter weapons and it would take some serious handwavium to pretend otherwise. Yet Dahak survived all of that firepower, with nothing more than some superficial surface damage.


And the SW universe has antimatter as infantry weapons...
But generally not for antishipping with a few specialist exceptions. One reason being that antimatter warheads rarely get past the meteor shields, at all.

I´ll say this, the DS is extremely unlikely to hit with its supergun, but if a Dahak is hit by it, it´s bye-bye.
The massive amounts of "turbolaser" batteries will probably also be enough to make itself felt on a Dahak.

Then you add in that Dahak is obviously much more maneuverable, much faster firing, and with much greater range, and the only way I could see the Death Star winning would be by firing first when Dahak wasn't expecting to be fired on. Now I suppose if such a situation occurred and the Death Star's super-laser actually got a shot off on the original Dahak it might succeed in blasting through the shields (because of point-focus) and destroying him or at least so heavily damaging him that the rest of the fight would no longer be a mismatch. Dahak II would likely shrug it off and proceed to kick the Darth Sideous' butt without even taking a scratch.



You´re making lots of assumptions.

What actually makes me give the likely win to Dahak is the fact that it´s 30 times bigger, and built for fighting 1st rather than terror first fighting second.

I rather doubt it would be easy though, because all the bullshit aside about the death star not having antiship weapons beyond the stupergun, lots of the techs the Dahak use relies on concepts known in the SW universe, but not used because there they are too ineffective.

Dahak speed in normalspace along with its massive size advantage should definitely have it end up winning however.
But if the DS supergun hits, it´s game over, end of story.


Hyper missiles would ignore the Death Star shields, and could well pop up inside the Death Star's hull


Right, because noone in the SW universe would ever have tried that already?

Same with Dahak's beam weapons - the Utu-class Dahak's beam weapons were stated to shatter molecular bonds; the weapons of the Asgerds and Trosans of the Empire were even more dangerous, shattering atomic bindings, inducing instant fission. Neither of those happen to be direct energy weapons along the lines of Star Wars weaponry.


Indeed, despite the fact that such weapons exist in the SW universe, ships do not use them.


Also, given how close it looks to Alderaan (and to Yavin IV when it prepares to fire) the range must be far less - yes, I know the original post asked about DSII, but we never saw it blow up a planet, so... Dahak can fire from dozens of light-minutes away, at which distance a planet would be only a point of light - no visible disk.


That´s movie reasoning. If there´s a Dahak movie made, do you really think they wouldn´t pull the same stuff there?
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Re: Dahak vs Death Star
Post by Tenshinai   » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:06 pm

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SERIOUSLY WTF?

WHY DOES EVERYONE ASSUME THAT THE DEATH STAR DOES NOT HAVE ANY HEAVY WEAPONS BEYOND THE SUPERLASER DESPITE THAT IT IS SPECIFICALLY STATED OTHERWISE IN THE MOVIES!?!?!

Not to mention how ALL other sources, games, books, interviews you name it, says it does.

The damn thing has the firepower total of around 350 Imperial Star Destroyers.
BEFORE counting the superlaser.
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