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1635 Long Sea Voyages Of $Exploitation$?

Alternate history buff? Wander on over for a discussion about Eric Flint's 1632 series!
Re: 1635 Long Sea Voyages Of $Exploitation$?
Post by thinkstoomuch   » Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:24 am

thinkstoomuch
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Tenshinai wrote: :roll:

I used Berlin to LA as comparison for that. Then ADDED Berlin to NY as a further, separate comparison to provide additional scale.
Only an idiot would automatically assume that the latter by default MUST be PART of the former.

Seriously, you COULD have come up with some sane objections or comments like Doug or Harold, as i just did a simple and quick comparison, but instead you draw extended connections that doesn´t exist?

*sheesh*


Right so the last line of your post meant nothing.

Tenshinai wrote:
:shock:

...snip...

Exactly how is twice to thrice the overseas distance to New York closer?


So if the first line says Western US and the last line says New York is closer ...

Nowhere in the snipped portion is anything to denote that anything is different in the comparisons. You specifically note this.

Only can't I read according to you. Now I am at fault for not reading your mind, apparently. Thus an idiot.

Still trying to figure out why New York even matters UNLESS it is in the Western US.

Interesting,
T2M
-----------------------
Q: “How can something be worth more than it costs? Isn’t everything ‘worth’ what it costs?”
A: “No. That’s just the price. ...
Christopher Anvil from Top Line in "War Games"
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Re: 1635 Long Sea Voyages Of $Exploitation$?
Post by doug941   » Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:04 pm

doug941
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Weird Harold wrote:
Tenshinai wrote:Berlin to Los Angeles California, straight line distance, 9300km.


In the Ring Of Fire universe, "Sea Miles" are far more relevant than "straight line" or "Great Circle" miles. In those terms, South Africa is practically "on the way" to Los Angeles or San Francisco.

There are probably a lot of good reasons for establishing a USE outpost in South Africa, especially considering the Colony on Mauritius established in Second Chance Bird.

But Grantville's denizens are unlikely to think of the "historic" South African mineral wealth unless someone mentions diamonds. What American schools put at the top of the list (a very short list, fwiw) is Sutter's Mill and the "forty-niners." Some schools might also have the Yukon Gold Rush on the list, but that's about it for American's knowledge of "historic gold rushes."

Consequently, Grantvillers are almost always going to think of North America when considering where to find needed (or desired) mineral deposits that aren't available in Europe.


Americans may or may not know of the South African gold strikes, but two things would tend to lean toward "May." Any halfway decent encyclopedia article would mention it and Grantville being a mining town might have someone interested in other-than-coal mining history. In another vein, (sorry, I couldn't resist it.) anyone with a more than basic knowledge of US coins would know that the US mints in Charlotte, North Carolina and Dahlonega Georgia were established for the North Carolina and Georgia gold strikes respectively. It has been guestimated that the Georgia strike yielded approx 870,000 troy ounces of gold from 1837 until WW2 and N Carolina would have had similar numbers.
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Re: 1635 Long Sea Voyages Of $Exploitation$?
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:45 pm

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doug941 wrote:Americans may or may not know of the South African gold strikes, but two things would tend to lean toward "May." Any halfway decent encyclopedia article would mention it and Grantville being a mining town might have someone interested in other-than-coal mining history.


Grantville has relied heavily on an early edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica for pointers to European resources, and worldwide resources not found in Europe -- like Rubber from Brazil. There almost certainly are references to various gold rushes throughout history; South Africa, Australia, Yukon, etc. That isn't going to stop the first thought of an uptimer being "Sutter's Mill, 1848" when the subject of "where is the Gold" comes up.

doug941 wrote:In another vein, (sorry, I couldn't resist it.) anyone with a more than basic knowledge of US coins would know that the US mints in Charlotte, North Carolina and Dahlonega Georgia were established for the North Carolina and Georgia gold strikes respectively. It has been guestimated that the Georgia strike yielded approx 870,000 troy ounces of gold from 1837 until WW2 and N Carolina would have had similar numbers.


If you ask most Americans -- who aren't numismatists -- where gold was found in North America, North Carolina and Georgia probably aren't going to make the list; Sutter's Mill, the Yukon, The Black Hills, and/or shrugs are going to be the answers.

Personally, I know that there was gold discovered in the Eastern US, including a couple of minor gold strikes in New England as well as those you mention. I wouldn't bet on the average American of the late 1990s being as conversant with anything less than gold rushes that were less than mass migrations.

Grantville does have the information, but the question is, "will anyone look for it?"
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: 1635 Long Sea Voyages Of $Exploitation$?
Post by Brigade XO   » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:33 am

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There is this Admiral that came along with Granville who just might have an appreciation of the stratigic wisdom of putting a colony supported by Sweeden in South Africa and probable interdicting all sorts of trade by unfriendly countries with the East via the Cape rout.

Of course, he also has a driving interest of getting a realistic force into the Med and eventualy dealing with the Ottomans (and France, and Spain) plus a number of smaller but active contries. USE is not likely to get involved with building a Suez Canal until it could be sure that nobody - like the Ottomans, the varioius Italian City-States, Spain and France just to name a few- would be able to keep it from happening or wait till it is finished and then take control of it. Besides, until there is a truly gigantic development of the volume of goods from the East comming by ship- and a corresponding volume of European goods flowing the other way, the whole canal idea is far too expensive to contimplate. A squadron or so of steam powered Ironclads based by the Cape with a population base to support it and you control that trade in the 16xx time frame.
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Re: 1635 Long Sea Voyages Of $Exploitation$?
Post by Senior Chief   » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:19 pm

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Lets not forget Crater op Diamonds located in Arkansas in the United States. Of course the Kimberly diamond mines in South Africa would be a close rival. A toss-up on which of the local natives would be more dangerous to the mining operation.
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