Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Battle of Jutland?

David's and Jacob Holo's newest alternate, cross history novel.
Battle of Jutland?
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:40 am

TFLYTSNBN
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1128
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:58 am

Just one possible alternative history.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/ ... od.157328/


Also think about early introduction of wire guided torpedos fired from submarines as well as ships.
Top
Re: Battle of Jutland?
Post by Dilandu   » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:04 pm

Dilandu
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1816
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 12:44 pm
Location: Russia

TFLYTSNBN wrote:Just one possible alternative history.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/ ... od.157328/


...Author obviously have zero knowledge about actual early guided weapon & how to build it.
After 2 years of testing, the final version was a wire guided free falling 12" Armor Piercing naval shell. Wings with movable fins were added to the AP shell to allow it to be moved left/right and up/down.


Up & down? How for Pete's sake, free-falling - not gliding! - projectile could move UP using just fins?

The guiding wires consisted of 2 wires connecting the AP shell to the Zeppelin. Voltage variance on the left wire moved the shell left and right. Voltage variance on the right wire moved the shell up and down.


Yeah, right. No roll control, so the operator would lose control over the projectile in a few second after launch. Simply because the projectile would roll unpredictably, and operator could NOT know, how his commands would be directed.
The wires weighed 1 pound for every 820 feet, falling 5,000 feet, each reel of wire attached to the AP shell weighed 6 pounds, 10 pounds with the reel itself added in.


So the cable weighted about 0,4 gram per feet? And how, I dare ask, this extremely thin wire would not snap from the shock?

Not to mention that they are used over the sea, in humid conditions, so they must be isolated. And isolation would add weight.

It took 4,500 feet for the AP shell to reach terminal velocity, thus the exact altitude needed was determined to be 5,000.


On such altitude they would be shreddered by the battleship's small calibre guns.

Each Zeppelin was capable of carrying hundreds of guided munitions.


... :shock: ...

The bomb is a "free falling 12" Armor Piercing naval shell"

The average German 12-inch AP shell weighted about 300 kg. The bomb with her control system would be at least 500 kg (probably more).

The best zeppelins available during the Battle of Jutland - the Q series - have a useful bomb load of about 2000 kg.

HOW FOR LENIN SAKE THEY COULD CARRY "HUNDREDS" OF 300-KG BOMBS?!!!
Once the attack began, all aspects were carried out with typical German efficiency.


Which basically means "make a senseless mess without thinking"

For the next 30 minutes it was a deadly game of tag, one after another, British heavy ships were tagged with AP shells. With a new AP shell dropped every 20 to 30 seconds from each Zeppelin there was plenty of tagging going on.


Yeah, and why exactly RN ships did not fight back? By 1916, most of RN ships were equipped with at least some AA guns, not to mention that destroyer & cruiser guns, as well as battleship secondaries could be used to engage closing zeppelins on 5000 feet altitude. And by 1916, the Royal Navy ventured only with seaplane carriers trailing them, so the flying boats would be launched rather quickly to engage enemy airships.

In short: utter author's incompetence.

P.S. And what exactly this theme is doing here?
------------------------------

- Who would won in battle between strawman Liberal-Democrat and strawman Conservative-Republican?
- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

P.S. - And he have Russian twin, to watch his back)
Top
Re: Battle of Jutland?
Post by Dilandu   » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:37 pm

Dilandu
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1816
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 12:44 pm
Location: Russia

TFLYTSNBN wrote:
Also think about early introduction of wire guided torpedos fired from submarines as well as ships.


I'm afraid you are seriously behind the schedule. The first wire-guided torpedoes - Lay torpedoes - were used during War of the Pacific by Peruvian Navy (which hoped to compensate for lack of numbers with modern technology). Admittedly, they weren't particularly successful at this role - generally because of their size...

Image
------------------------------

- Who would won in battle between strawman Liberal-Democrat and strawman Conservative-Republican?
- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

P.S. - And he have Russian twin, to watch his back)
Top
Re: Battle of Jutland?
Post by runsforcelery   » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:23 pm

runsforcelery
First Space Lord

Posts: 2332
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:39 am
Location: South Carolina

Dilandu wrote:
TFLYTSNBN wrote:Just one possible alternative history.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/ ... od.157328/


...Author obviously have zero knowledge about actual early guided weapon & how to build it.
After 2 years of testing, the final version was a wire guided free falling 12" Armor Piercing naval shell. Wings with movable fins were added to the AP shell to allow it to be moved left/right and up/down.




Up & down? How for Pete's sake, free-falling - not gliding! - projectile could move UP using just fins?

The guiding wires consisted of 2 wires connecting the AP shell to the Zeppelin. Voltage variance on the left wire moved the shell left and right. Voltage variance on the right wire moved the shell up and down.


Yeah, right. No roll control, so the operator would lose control over the projectile in a few second after launch. Simply because the projectile would roll unpredictably, and operator could NOT know, how his commands would be directed.
The wires weighed 1 pound for every 820 feet, falling 5,000 feet, each reel of wire attached to the AP shell weighed 6 pounds, 10 pounds with the reel itself added in.


So the cable weighted about 0,4 gram per feet? And how, I dare ask, this extremely thin wire would not snap from the shock?

Not to mention that they are used over the sea, in humid conditions, so they must be isolated. And isolation would add weight.

It took 4,500 feet for the AP shell to reach terminal velocity, thus the exact altitude needed was determined to be 5,000.


On such altitude they would be shreddered by the battleship's small calibre guns.

Each Zeppelin was capable of carrying hundreds of guided munitions.


... :shock: ...

The bomb is a "free falling 12" Armor Piercing naval shell"

The average German 12-inch AP shell weighted about 300 kg. The bomb with her control system would be at least 500 kg (probably more).

The best zeppelins available during the Battle of Jutland - the Q series - have a useful bomb load of about 2000 kg.

HOW FOR LENIN SAKE THEY COULD CARRY "HUNDREDS" OF 300-KG BOMBS?!!!
Once the attack began, all aspects were carried out with typical German efficiency.


Which basically means "make a senseless mess without thinking"

For the next 30 minutes it was a deadly game of tag, one after another, British heavy ships were tagged with AP shells. With a new AP shell dropped every 20 to 30 seconds from each Zeppelin there was plenty of tagging going on.


Yeah, and why exactly RN ships did not fight back? By 1916, most of RN ships were equipped with at least some AA guns, not to mention that destroyer & cruiser guns, as well as battleship secondaries could be used to engage closing zeppelins on 5000 feet altitude. And by 1916, the Royal Navy ventured only with seaplane carriers trailing them, so the flying boats would be launched rather quickly to engage enemy airships.

In short: utter author's incompetence.

P.S. And what exactly this theme is doing here?



Calmly, Dilandu! Calmly! Take deep breaths. Drink some hot tea and contemplate the Russian snow. :lol:

Although I have to admit, an awful lot of the same thoughts went through my head while I was reading the proposal. Mind you, I can see ways Jutland could've turned out worse for the Brits --- not a lot worse, unless they'd strayed into the U-boat line after all (or unless the battleships had adopted the same ammo stowage procedures as the battlecruisers) --- but this one does strike me as . . . unlikely. :roll:

On the other hand, TFLYTSNBN didn't create the proposal; he simply shared it.


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
Top
Re: Battle of Jutland?
Post by Dilandu   » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:49 pm

Dilandu
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1816
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 12:44 pm
Location: Russia

runsforcelery wrote:

Calmly, Dilandu! Calmly! Take deep breaths. Drink some hot tea and contemplate the Russian snow. :lol:


I'm sorry, RFC; it's just that early guided weapons are my sphere of interests ;)

--- but this one does strike me as . . . unlikely. :roll:


Actually, IMHO, one of the most important mistakes of Sheer was that he decided to go without zeppelins, instead relying on submarines for reconnaissance...
------------------------------

- Who would won in battle between strawman Liberal-Democrat and strawman Conservative-Republican?
- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

P.S. - And he have Russian twin, to watch his back)
Top

Return to The Gordian Protocol