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Gordian protocol Snippet #2

David's and Jacob Holo's newest alternate, cross history novel.
Re: Gordian protocol Snippet #2
Post by The E   » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:12 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:If a white boy wearing a MAGA hat and a Jordan Peterson teeshirt were in the class, perhaps even TFLYTSNBN, he would not be the type of butt hurt little bitch who would go whining to the adminstration.


Your reading skills are as sharp as ever, I see. Please reread the last paragraph of that post you quoted.

BTW, TFLYTSNBN is well aware of the multitude of genetic abnormalities XYY, XXY and in vitrio harmonal imbalances that result in people who do not conform physiologically or psychologically to the simplistic, binary gender system. They might or might not benefit from gender reassignment surgery or harmone therapy as oppossed to psychological counseling. They should not be subjected to physical assault or bullying. However; such people should not be enabled to exploit their very real disorders to establish a massive edifice of political grievances to impose on everyone else.


I don't see what this has to do with anything I said (In my post, I speculated that the passage I was writing about wouldn't raise any flags for you because you would be unable to see the silly stereotype for what it is).

Did you notice the shooting scene with the avowed homosexual who expouses an extremely conservative political phylosophy? Perhaps some of this gender identity activism is noth8ng more than a temper tantrum?


Again, not sure what this has to do with anything I wrote.

Also, anyone who is both gay and an avowed american conservative needs their head checked, if only because the only political parties that agree with you are also ones who would want to legislate you out of existence.
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Re: Gordian protocol Snippet #2
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:16 pm

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You truly are incapable of understanding divergent viewpoints.

If you had been paying attention during the 2016 Republican convention, you would have noticed that Trump had secured the support of conservative homosexuals as well as evangelical christians. The two groups have differences oncertain issues but congruence on others.
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Re: Gordian protocol Snippet #2
Post by runsforcelery   » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:22 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:You truly are incapable of understanding divergent viewpoints.

If you had been paying attention during the 2016 Republican convention, you would have noticed that Trump had secured the support of conservative homosexuals as well as evangelical christians. The two groups have differences oncertain issues but congruence on others.


The only thing that I will insert here is that I used this example because it is, almost verbatim, a transcript of a conversation I had at a con within the last couple of years. It was, in fact, on a panel about using history in science fiction and I used the two examples Benjamin uses in the book . . . and got precisely the same response. And an argument which continued for several minutes of the rest of the panel's time before I simply said I would no longer discuss it unless the individual in question wanted to meet with me outside panel time. Which, in fact, happened at the dead dog party when the conversation went much better. It was, unfortunately, not the first time I had a conversation very like it on very much the same dogmatic basis.

Sometime fiction imitates life.

I have several gay and transgender friends and I'm sure I count many more of them in my readership. This particular conversation is not one I've ever had with someone who was open minded, and it was the lack of open mindedness at his university --- from both sides of the political/philosophical aisle, if you read the scene with David --- which appalled Benjamin. One of the things I cannot abide is blanket, knee jerk condemnation of anyone or any viewpoint --- especially ones with which I disagree. Abnyone who knows me knows I hold strong opinions. I believe most of them also realize I respect differing opinions, since we learn damned little just talking to people who agree with us! I don't care who is imposing "safe speech zones" and shutting down any expression of differing opinions. Those people may pose as champions of human equality or as defenders of racial purity, but all of them are peddling the same poison. A lot of people are fond of the phrase "democracy dies in the dark" these days. Well, it also dies in the silence, people, and I loathe the sort of people who attempt to silence anyone who isn't openly preaching violence against someone else. Anything short of that, settle it at the ballot box, not by admitting a single viewpoint to the public square because someone on either side may be offended.

That's what adults do.


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: Gordian protocol Snippet #2
Post by The E   » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:24 am

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:You truly are incapable of understanding divergent viewpoints.

If you had been paying attention during the 2016 Republican convention, you would have noticed that Trump had secured the support of conservative homosexuals as well as evangelical christians. The two groups have differences oncertain issues but congruence on others.


I have been paying attention. Which means I also noticed how, for example, "Gays for Trump" held a "national march" this year that less than a hundred people attended. I noticed that Caitlyn Jenner, Trump's most famous transgender supporter, withdrew her support last year citing the Trump Administrations' evolving stance on LGBT issues. I noticed that, under direction from the Trump administration, american delegations to the UN have begun to deemphasize gender identity as something protectable, thereby weakening support for LGBT rights internationally. I noticed that the Trump admin has tried to ban transgender individuals from serving in the military without any good evidence of that move being necessary, or how his administration has consistently backed bigots invoking religious freedom as a smokescreen to allow them to discriminate against LGBT people.

I also know that, because of the issues inherent in your system, there is no party that can cater to LGBT conservatives, since the GOP's strong "christian" and "family values" stances will always stand in the way of that party fully embracing LGBTQ people as fully equal members.
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Re: Gordian protocol Snippet #2
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:21 am

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It is possible to be a conservative and still be appalled by what the Republican Party and Trump are espousing as convervatism. That would be the position of Benjamin's brother. The fact that the radical right wing of Christianity has hijacked the term, does not mean that I have to give up holding conservative values, it just means I have to reject their twisted interpretation.
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The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Gordian protocol Snippet #2
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:02 pm

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Dilandu wrote:
Jacob Holo wrote:(<cough> wrong guns being used by Ukrainians in 1958 <cough>)


Exactly which Ukrainians, may I ask? You see, being Russian I'm a bit... sensitive about western authors, writing about pretty complicated question of Eastern European relations) No hard feelings, you probably feel the same about our writers trying to work with American history) ;)



Probably the divergence includes armed Ukrainians refusing to be victims of Stslin's terror famine.
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Re: Gordian protocol Snippet #2
Post by BernieBerns   » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:49 am

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fallsfromtrees wrote: It is possible to be a conservative and still be appalled by what the Republican Party and Trump are espousing as conservatism. That would be the position of Benjamin's brother. The fact that the radical right wing of Christianity has hijacked the term, does not mean that I have to give up holding conservative values, it just means I have to reject their twisted interpretation.


Stumbled upon this post after stumbling upon the site but you're completely right. Conservative ideology has always been debated along side liberal ideology. It's a shame that a few, perhaps even just one man, have completely hijacked conservatism. The 'right' has gone so far to the right that centrism is many times called "liberalism". These be interesting times.. :|


Also to TFLYTSNBN: LGBT people overwhelmingly do not support Trump or the GOP. You can trust me on that ;)
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Re: Gordian protocol Snippet #2
Post by Fiannawolf   » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:41 am

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This book is def. on my to do list once it hits.

Glad I got out of college when I did. Because even back in the early 2000s, the bias was to the point it wasn't even subtle anymore.

It's kinda interesting that my own political views are the new counter culture.

I support Pres. Trump because he ticks off the entire establishment, not just the democrats. I am exasperated with all of them. Republicans not doing their job, the dems not doing their job, senators shouldn't get seats for life...the list is endless.

A whole ton more people support him then you think. Since Hilldawg, with the dabbing, went overboard. It will be amusing if she runs for 2020. The field is already quite crowded with dem hopefuls.

This book will def. give me even more food for thought on how people's biases/worldview plays into things and that's important to me.

More LGBT people support Trump then you think, you can trust me on that. ;)
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Re: Gordian protocol Snippet #2
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:41 pm

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Fiannawolf wrote:This book is def. on my to do list once it hits.

Glad I got out of college when I did. Because even back in the early 2000s, the bias was to the point it wasn't even subtle anymore.

It's kinda interesting that my own political views are the new counter culture.

I support Pres. Trump because he ticks off the entire establishment, not just the democrats. I am exasperated with all of them. Republicans not doing their job, the dems not doing their job, senators shouldn't get seats for life...the list is endless.

A whole ton more people support him then you think. Since Hilldawg, with the dabbing, went overboard. It will be amusing if she runs for 2020. The field is already quite crowded with dem hopefuls.

This book will def. give me even more food for thought on how people's biases/worldview plays into things and that's important to me.

More LGBT people support Trump then you think, you can trust me on that. ;)



I use the dog analogy.

Conservatives supported genteel women with the disposition of a Golden Retriever such as Representative Michael Bachman and Governor Palin to champion their cause. They were abused viciously using sexist tactics that are allegedly taboo. In response conservatives recruited themselves a Rottweiler who licks himself, craps on the floor and humps your leg when he isn't biting your balls off.

If liberals and establishment Republicans dont like it, they have no one but themselves to blame.

PS, Nancy Pellossi's own daughter would attest that her mom is a vicious bitch who will bite your balls off to.
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Re: Gordian protocol Snippet #2
Post by Duckk   » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:11 pm

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Get back to discussing the snippet, take the rest to Politics or Free Range.
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Shields at 50%, taunting at 100%! - Tom Pope
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