From the comic book writer

Well I got the first issue. I had to drive all the way to the people's republic of Portlandto vista the Future Dreams Bookstore which has moved into a dungeon to find it.

Mybiggest complaint is Nimitz. He is supposed to be cute and cuddly until he feelstheneedto kill something. That demon you drew would scare the crap out of any sane human being. However; you might getryingto make Nimitz seem more plausible.

As the resident, lecherous old man on the forum, I am elated with your depiction of Honor. Just to piss people off, I will point out that she resembles a somewhat younger Goveenor Palin. Honor's various unitards when she sin prison and working out enable the artist to emphasize her anatomy in the classic, comic book manner. There is an economic motivation for this that I will not object to, The shower was not quite as provocative as I would hope for but more than I expected. The US is not Japan so pornographic comics are not socially acceptable.


The bottom line here is that the comic books are a marketing precusor to the movie. The comics are a vehicle to reach a new, younger demographic. The very unsubtle advertising for Weber's books will get a lot of these younger kids to buy the books. More book sales = more shelf space in the bookstore = more visibility to other book buyers = even more sales = a larger core audience for a movie = more $$$$ in Weber's pocket. I am shocked, Shocked, SHOCKED by the blatant commercialism, LOL.

In reverse order:

@ 3: Concur that Nimitz needs work: still way too scary, size would be upper end of acceptable, at best, if it consisted mostly of fluffy hair.

@ 2: hopefully we will see the #3/#4 designs in later issues (after the current 5-issue book maybe? Same for a smaller & hairier Nimitz)

@ 1: That's what's called an Informed Ability (Informed Trait in this case?); y'know "Hollywood Homely".

Well, for your mileage anyway; me, I don't buy that whole "long pointy chin + narrow pointy nose = beauty" Hollywood is selling ... and it looks like Honor has an overbite too, and sloping shoulders ain't my favorite neither (nor skinny).

But that's all right; after all I don't read the books because I find her physically appealing.


btw. namelessfly, did you sprain your thumb or something? Lots of missing/misplaced spacebars there.

yannosh wrote: [snip]
For critiques I have only three. two minor and one major.
1 - there is young Honor, the flavor text of her mind telling us she was never beautiful - wile looking like a wet dream. Major dissonance there, and one that could have been easily rectified by a simple rewording - "I never believed myself beautiful." instead of "I was never beautiful."
2 - As MaxxQ said, certain uniformity of design of the ships of the same navy is expected. So far, your artists seem to have gone for trying to give ships certain uniqueness that is wholly unnecessary, and frankly would have been ill advised practice for any professional military.
3 - Nimitz. No. just no. I already expressed myself on the matter and I will reiterate. That nightmare inducing monstrosity is not Nimitz. This is not simply a matter of him not matching my mental image of the character. It goes fully into mutilation. Too big, too hairless, too ugly, too reptilian... and he feels like a prop, not a full character in his own right. And whatever your artists and designers think, no it most certainly does not look cool, except perhaps to Gothic aficionados.
I am sorry if my last point came as too ranty. But whereas I can fully accept the need for reimagination, reinterpretation and adaptation necessary when switching mediums, I feel that what you did with Nimitz was an utter failure at all three. Frankly, you went way overboard.

hvb wrote:@ 1: That's what's called an Informed Ability (Informed Trait in this case?); y'know "Hollywood Homely".

You misunderstood me. I don't mind that they made her attractive. the minor critique is due to dissonance caused by her telling us she was never beautiful, while she clearly was rather attractive. And keep in mind that the narrating Honor is from IEH, by which time she had accepted she was overly critical of her looks. I just feel it could have been a bit better worded, that's all. And it is a rather minor nit.

yannosh wrote:You misunderstood me. I don't mind that they made her attractive. the minor critique is due to dissonance caused by her telling us she was never beautiful, while she clearly was rather attractive. And keep in mind that the narrating Honor is from IEH, by which time she had accepted she was overly critical of her looks. I just feel it could have been a bit better worded, that's all. And it is a rather minor nit.

She was never beautiful in her own mind. I think that's a big part of this, she never felt beautiful because she was always comparing herself to her mother and coming up short; we're never exactly told how everyone else feels about the matter (aside from Young's "not much to look at, but with a certain grace" comments somewhere).

mhawkins wrote:I've got relatively thick skin =) Like I said, we're working on trying to make it the best it can be and all of your feedback will help with that.

I am, timing appropriate, working on the third issue plot tonight!
[snip]

Well, let's stress-test that skin a bit.

So far we have only seen the first issue, but one thing that I just noticed:

100% Caucasian, 0% Filk-All Else. (Honor isn't noticeably Asian-y.)

The readers are going to fall off their chairs when they meet Henke or the Queen "What? Everyone is white but the royal family is black, what kind of reverse racism is this?"

Well, maybe Mercedes Brigham & Mai-ling Jackson are going to save us from that in the second 5-issue arc, but wee need more of the extras in the background to reflect the multi-ethnicity of Manticore.

My lazy-geek's suggestion:
Everyone has six-sided dice, surely you guys do too. So roll a couple d6 for each extra, under-five or supporting character not clearly described in the books as of a specific racial phenotype:
1st die:
1-3 = Caucasian (1=fair/red, 2=brown, 3=black hair), 4 = Asian, 5 = Black*, 6 = Indian/Middle Eastern.
2nd die:
If 1st die 1-3: 1=fairer to 6=darker end of hair-hue scale.
If 1st die 4-6: reroll addmix per 1st die.

This will generate:
50% "pure" whites: 1/3 each hair color palette.
5.6% each: Asian-Black mix, A-I/ME mix, & B-I/ME mix.
2.8% each: Asian, Black, Indian/ME.
2.8% each fair/red-haired: Asian-white, Black-white, & I/ME;
brown-haired ditto; & black-haired ditto.

This may not be the "correct" numbers (albeit David hasn't given us any, so it isn't counter to Canon either); what is is is easy-peasy and a damn-sigh better than all-honkie.

(And yes I know comics traditionally were all-white, but let's at least try to advance from that point when working in a 'verse that isn't.)

*: They ain't called African-Europeans on this side of the Atlantic, and some of Jason's brood was from Europe, so there.

hvb wrote:

mhawkins wrote:I've got relatively thick skin =) Like I said, we're working on trying to make it the best it can be and all of your feedback will help with that.

I am, timing appropriate, working on the third issue plot tonight!
[snip]

Well, let's stress-test that skin a bit.

So far we have only seen the first issue, but one thing that I just noticed:

100% Caucasian, 0% Filk-All Else. (Honor isn't noticeably Asian-y.)

The readers are going to fall off their chairs when they meet Henke or the Queen "What? Everyone is white but the royal family is black, what kind of reverse racism is this?"

Well, maybe Mercedes Brigham & Mai-ling Jackson are going to save us from that in the second 5-issue arc, but wee need more of the extras in the background to reflect the multi-ethnicity of Manticore.

My lazy-geek's suggestion:
Everyone has six-sided dice, surely you guys do too. So roll a couple d6 for each extra, under-five or supporting character not clearly described in the books as of a specific racial phenotype:
1st die:
1-3 = Caucasian (1=fair/red, 2=brown, 3=black hair), 4 = Asian, 5 = Black*, 6 = Indian/Middle Eastern.
2nd die:
If 1st die 1-3: 1=fairer to 6=darker end of hair-hue scale.
If 1st die 4-6: reroll addmix per 1st die.

This will generate:
50% "pure" whites: 1/3 each hair color palette.
5.6% each: Asian-Black mix, A-I/ME mix, & B-I/ME mix.
2.8% each: Asian, Black, Indian/ME.
2.8% each fair/red-haired: Asian-white, Black-white, & I/ME;
brown-haired ditto; & black-haired ditto.

This may not be the "correct" numbers (albeit David hasn't given us any, so it isn't counter to Canon either); what is is is easy-peasy and a damn-sigh better than all-honkie.

(And yes I know comics traditionally were all-white, but let's at least try to advance from that point when working in a 'verse that isn't.)

*: They ain't called African-Europeans on this side of the Atlantic, and some of Jason's brood was from Europe, so there.

This is the writer, not the artist. Not sure how much say he has in those kinds of decisions.

About beauty of Honor, it seems in the early books she considers herself too large, flat-chested, etc. If I remember correctly, it was about the prologue, which is too long leaves unattractive angular teenage features of the body. In this sense, I suppose, in Honor of the youth and the truth is weak claim to the standard of beauty. In contrast to the more mature of Honor that we meet later.

Starsaber wrote:
This is the writer, not the artist. Not sure how much say he has in those kinds of decisions.

He must have some, and while I haven't read the comic yet, it's an important point to raise.

Not only is it the right thing to do, and accurate to canon, it's also a pretty damn easy fix.

NortonIDaughter wrote:

Starsaber wrote:
This is the writer, not the artist. Not sure how much say he has in those kinds of decisions.

He must have some, and while I haven't read the comic yet, it's an important point to raise.

Not only is it the right thing to do, and accurate to canon, it's also a pretty damn easy fix.

And it's one I addressed with Evergreen and which they intend to fix.

OK, great to hear.

... I just had a bit of an anxiety attack when I noticed I had missed the problem on the first read-through.

So by what issue of the comics should we expect the problem to be rectified?

runsforcelery wrote:

NortonIDaughter wrote:
He must have some, and while I haven't read the comic yet, it's an important point to raise.

Not only is it the right thing to do, and accurate to canon, it's also a pretty damn easy fix.

And it's one I addressed with Evergreen and which they intend to fix.