Ancient Hebrews and E=MC2

For Cithia.
I suggest that we move this discussion to politics, as I have no idea as to what you mean by

It is nothing short of miraculous that simple goat herders got the nitty and the gritty right in the Bible. They had to be either some genius goat herders or either there is something to their madness if they spout crazy insane phenomena that is supported by the very science that you embrace.

Simple goat herders certainly had no way of knowing the most famous scientific equation man will discover centuries later will support an important aspect of their nonsense.

Nor by how it relates to the Honorverse.

If this is that Ma, Ohr, Maohr thing ...

Faith as small as a mustard seed can move mountains. Be it mountains of evil or mountains of people. A Christian's strength and power comes from his faith.

God only requires faith, as small as a mustard seed . . .

E = MC² - a little faith (Mass) goes a long way.

God created all the Mass of the world in six days. Then he said . . .

"Let there be light." So that we can C.

-cthia


"I can't see! I can't see!

"What's the matter?"

"I got my eyes closed."


O ye of little faith.


****** *


My favorite example of faith has always been . . .

I just need to touch the hem of his garment.

She didn't feel she needed to actually touch Jesus, she felt that simply touching his garment would suffice. That passage represents such powerful faith that it always leaves me in tears. Her faith was so strong it drained power from God. E = MC²

Effectively, her faith turned her into a conductor, draining power from God. I mentioned the notion of man turning himself into a conductor once before on the forum and someone called it rubbish. The Bible supports—even suggests—that notion as well. Many people who believe in science fail to apply science and mathematics to religion. Which to me is ironic, considering that they claim to believe in truth, but fail to consider all possibilities, like what the very science they support says about the possibility of the "nonsense" they claim is found in the Bible to be true.

All scientists apply what they've learned to technology, medicine, biology, astrology, astronomy and every other thing under the sun, but they fail to apply it to religion. The true search for truth searches all paths to enlightenment. Prejudiced scientific experiments are simply garbage. Vice versa, many Christians have a closed mind to science. NOT THIS CHRISTIAN! I'm not trying to convert anyone, I'm simply saying (consider what is as obvious as light, to me) . . .

The Application of Science and Mathematics to Religion

So, certainly people would deem the notion that pure faith would turn a Christian into a conductor as nonsense. As if the Holy Grail of an all encompassing Theory of Everything wouldn't include the science of electricity???

The most important equation yet discovered by man supports the main notion claimed in the Bible about faith. It seems to me that if the Bible was so far off course that said equation would say "Nope. Not possible." But it doesn't. Experiments have concluded it is true, a result of which is the atomic bomb. Almost at every turn the possibility of the religious nonsense spouted in the Bible is supported by the very science that scientists embrace. It seems it would go the other way around. Surely simple nomadic goat herders didn't understand the famous equation before the famous scientist.

And what does quantum mechanics say about God's ability to be everywhere that two people are gathered in his name? It is the first thing a child wants to know, "How can God be everywhere?"

I know. I know.

"All of those things are circumstantial evidence that any Christian can use to his own advantage."

I've heard that argument a thousand times. And I acknowledge the possibility that Christians could be seeing confirmation where none exists.

BUT! Even so, it is so easy to do. There are so many other things, mathematical and otherwise, that simply slot so easily into place. What's interesting, and what they fail to say, is that that would have to be the case if an all knowing, all powerful being created everything, from the Theory of Everything which God is. Which means his work would have no holes in it at all, and everything would be related and easily fall into place like pieces of a Lego system and its interchangeable nature.

Yet, non believers cannot apply their equations to dispelling anything claimed possible in the Bible. I've shown you otherwise. Give me something about the famous equation that leads away from the truth the Bible asserts.

Also, if the mass of God is inserted into E = MC², it would yield infinite energy.

My last and final post unless you speak to me with your equations.

The universal language.

cthia wrote:Also, if the mass of God is inserted into E = MC², it would yield infinite energy.

My last and final post unless you speak to me with your equations.

So you're praying to a black hole?

I mean, that's certainly close to the truth: Christianity can certainly be described as something that has a bright halo and acts in many ways as a source of energy but hides an intensely destructive core that will annihilate anything approaching it....

cthia wrote:My favorite example of faith has always been . . .

I just need to touch the hem of his garment.

She didn't feel she needed to actually touch Jesus, she felt that simply touching his garment would suffice. That passage represents such powerful faith that it always leaves me in tears. Her faith was so strong it drained power from God. E = MC²

I don't quite see how that bible passage leads into relativity, but I'm sure someone as good at communicating ideas and concepts as you are can bridge that gap easily.

Effectively, her faith turned her into a conductor, draining power from God. I mentioned the notion of man turning himself into a conductor once before on the forum and someone called it rubbish.

People turning themselves into conductors are usually either employed by an orchestra, working in public transportation, have been sentenced to die on an electric chair, are suffering through a freak occurrence in weather patterns or are currently in the midst of a quite possibly fatal accident.

The Bible supports—even suggests—that notion as well. Many people who believe in science fail to apply science and mathematics to religion. Which to me is ironic, considering that they claim to believe in truth, but fail to consider all possibilities, like what the very science they support says about the possibility of the "nonsense" they claim is found in the Bible to be true.

Okay, bold claim there. Let's see what you got to support it.

All scientists apply what they've learned to technology, medicine, biology, astrology, astronomy and every other thing under the sun, but they fail to apply it to religion. The true search for truth searches all paths to enlightenment.

... You do know that theology is a field of study, yes? Grouped somewhere under Philosophy? Combining elements of historical studies, metaphysics and sociology?
Not a "hard" science (what a stupid term that is, by the way), but a science nonetheless.

Prejudiced scientific experiments are simply garbage. Vice versa, many Christians have a closed mind to science. NOT THIS CHRISTIAN! I'm not trying to convert anyone, I'm simply saying (consider what is as obvious as light, to me) . . .

The Application of Science and Mathematics to Religion

So, certainly people would deem the notion that pure faith would turn a Christian into a conductor as nonsense. As if the Holy Grail of an all encompassing Theory of Everything wouldn't include the science of electricity???

...so faith in the christian god is applied electricity now?

Sure, we can break neurological interactions (which includes faith) down into charges being transmitted across a neural connectome, but doing so is really not useful at all; It's equivalent to trying to do chemistry by invoking quantum effects.

The most important equation yet discovered by man supports the main notion claimed in the Bible about faith. It seems to me that if the Bible was so far off course that said equation would say "Nope. Not possible." But it doesn't. Experiments have concluded it is true, a result of which is the atomic bomb. Almost at every turn the possibility of the religious nonsense spouted in the Bible is supported by the very science that scientists embrace. It seems it would go the other way around. Surely simple nomadic goat herders didn't understand the famous equation before the famous scientist.

I note that you're confusing rhetoric for proof once more.

[qutoe]And what does quantum mechanics say about God's ability to be everywhere that two people are gathered in his name? It is the first thing a child wants to know, "How can God be everywhere?"

I know. I know.

"All of those things are circumstantial evidence that any Christian can use to his own advantage."

I've heard that argument a thousand times. And I acknowledge the possibility that Christians could be seeing confirmation where none exists.[/quote]

And now you're doing a Deepak Chopra, applying concepts that sound scientific in a way that makes you sound scientific, but simultaneously making it clear that you're just a dilletante or charlatan parroting words you do not really understand.

BUT! Even so, it is so easy to do. There are so many other things, mathematical and otherwise, that simply slot so easily into place. What's interesting, and what they fail to say, is that that would have to be the case if an all knowing, all powerful being created everything, from the Theory of Everything which God is. Which means his work would have no holes in it at all, and everything would be related and easily fall into place like pieces of a Lego system and its interchangeable nature.

Yet, non believers cannot apply their equations to dispelling anything claimed possible in the Bible. I've shown you otherwise. Give me something about the famous equation that leads away from the truth the Bible asserts.

You still haven't pointed out anything approaching a link between high-energy physics and your religion, so no. You have not shown us otherwise.

My last and final post unless you speak to me with your equations.

The universal language.

Why don't you try speaking it first? I see no equations in your post there that you have come up with yourself. Your proof seems to be "Matter and Energy are interchangeable, faith gives me energy, therefore god is real", which is just unbelievably cheap and stupid.

If you want to be scientific, be scientific. Formulate a hypothesis. Design experiments. Do experiments. Formulate a theory based on the results. Share your data and methodology. Don't just spew some barely coherent crap noone who isn't inside your head can understand.

(But then, your relationship to such things as facts and proof is pretty loose, isn't it. Still waiting for that lawsuit, by the way!)

I admit that I still don't have a clue as to what you are on about. To me there is absolutely no connection between relativity and the Abrahamic religions. I suspect that you have to have this "faith" thing to get it.

I'm just going to call bullshit on the entire post. Einstein's famous mass/energy equivalency equation was derived by calculus, which was developed more-or-less independently by Isaac Newton and Gottfried Liebnitz in the 17th century. Newton got most of the credit because he published Principia Mathematica first.

Besides their lack of the mathematics to derive the equation, those ignorant primitive goat-herders were not even aware of the possibility that light might HAVE a speed, so it's even more bullshit.

It's like claiming those ancient Greek myths about Zeus's thunderbolts were really about atomic bombs dropped from orbit.

Stop trying to call a bunch of primitive myths 'scientific evidence' when they are neither evidence nor scientific. Seriously, you're like some moron claiming that Nero 'fiddled while Rome burned' 1,000 years before the violin was invented.

Everything we have learned in the last 2,000 years has been in spite of The Bible, not because of it, constantly impeded by 'The Faithful' presenting irrational superstitious twaddle as wisdom while denouncing provable scientific facts as 'heresy'.
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It is impossible to obtain new knowledge by rehashing a bunch of old stories.

Aye.

But there are some fun theories out there.

One of my favorites is the simple Maohr one, that instead of God saying "let there be light" (Maohr in hebrew), it should actually be "let there be energy"
That Maohr is mistranslated. (Probably because energy is to abstract a concept for 2kBCE)₩

Then you can link Ma (hebrew for mass/weight) and Ohr (also hebrew for light) to get Energy = mass times light, which is pretty damn close.
At least I think that's how it went.

The other Maohr one is some truely twisty busted logic.

Annachie wrote:Aye.

But there are some fun theories out there.

One of my favorites is the simple Maohr one, that instead of God saying "let there be light" (Maohr in hebrew), it should actually be "let there be energy"
That Maohr is mistranslated. (Probably because energy is to abstract a concept for 2kBCE)₩

Then you can link Ma (hebrew for mass/weight) and Ohr (also hebrew for light) to get Energy = mass times light, which is pretty damn close.
At least I think that's how it went.

The other Maohr one is some truely twisty busted logic.

Kind of strange because Hebrew doesn't really have a word for "energy" - we use energya rather than a native word. Likewise, ma doesn't mean weight unless there's some obscure archaic meaning involved (weight is mishkal).

And cthia - I suggest you try to make your explanation much clearer. Because at the moment your argument seems to have as much validity as the mathematical "proof" that women are evil...

So just to summarize here... the argument we're all supposed to find so astounding is essentially "look! If I redefine these terms to mean different things and perform all kinds of mental contortions I can twist them into an equation that is still wrong but kind of sounds similar to the right equation in that it shares some words with it!"

Wow. Amazing.

There are many equations which can "prove" things. I am quite fond of the "bookshops are black holes" equation.

Knowledge = Power
Power = Energy
Energy = Matter
Matter = Mass

Of course, there's the truly wonderful version of logic known as "Insane Troll Logic" which is not right to the point that it isn't even wrong.

It is also known as Fractal Wrongness...