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US out of Venezuela!

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Re: US out of Venezuela!
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:56 pm

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Daryl wrote:As I tried to illustrate, Imaginos1892, I started off living in a roofless hut and over time did quite well for myself by hard work and study.
Many just don't have that ability, or are repeatedly hit by Murphy. That doesn't mean that they aren't good people deserving of living in dignity.
My late father was among other things, a fighter pilot, Mayor, and what you would call a rancher. As he explained, in his lifetime he saw the change where to dig a ditch you hired 40 labourers with picks and shovels, or later you used a D6 dozer with ripper and blade (as he owned), and did the job yourself much more quickly. In his discussion he pointed out that society overall had no financial disadvantage in paying those forty labourers the dole or a wage to build something else.

You would be amazed to know that a lot of TEA Party Republicans and other Trump supporters actually share your opinion to a certain extent. There is no denying that the Dot.Com Billionaire liberals have been enabled to amassvast fortunes while the lower middle class factory workers have seen their real wages stagnate or decline. This is partially the result of innovative people creating new technologies that generate wealth. However; it is also the result of free trade policies that export jobs and excessive immigration, particularly illegal immigrants, that depresses the fair market value of labor.



Even after all this time on these pages I'm unsure about the US, but we are a wealthy enough society to ensure that the good people at the bottom are still able to live with dignity.
From available data it does appear that most developed countries have seen an extreme concentration of wealth to the "elites" over time, but the US is more extreme than many.
I have a tentative theory that this is because most developed countries have a comprehensive national health and welfare net, so people in the main don't end up in dire straits. However in the US it becomes apparent that you have to spend a lifetime accumulating wealth to protect yourself from penury. Plus in this "war", to justify yourself you then dehumanise the losers by calling them lazy, feckless and much more.
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Re: US out of Venezuela!
Post by Annachie   » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:06 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:
gcomeau wrote:[quote="Imaginos1892"]How stupid do you have to be to not understand the difference between earning money and gambling?


If you think there were no elements of just pure chance and good luck in Bezos' accumulation of his massive fortune.... or for that matter are unable to grasp the concept of an analogy and the fact that they can be used to clarify concepts by comparing two different things which share SOME similar properties while not being at all the same in other respects... I invite you to spend time in reflection on the identity of the stupid party in this discussion.



Bezos certainly benefited from President Obama pressuring the US Post Office to provide delivery services to Amazon at a small fraction of fair market value.[/quote]You migt need to back that incorrect assertion up Fly.

But a hint. The rules that sets the prices for USPS, date back to 2006.

A second. The parcel service is the part of the US postsl service that makes the most proffit.



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Re: US out of Venezuela!
Post by gcomeau   » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:24 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:
gcomeau wrote:If you think there were no elements of just pure chance and good luck in Bezos' accumulation of his massive fortune.... or for that matter are unable to grasp the concept of an analogy and the fact that they can be used to clarify concepts by comparing two different things which share SOME similar properties while not being at all the same in other respects... I invite you to spend time in reflection on the identity of the stupid party in this discussion.



Bezos certainly benefited from President Obama pressuring the US Post Office to provide delivery services to Amazon at a small fraction of fair market value.


"I'll take Things That Never Happened for $500' Alex..."
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Re: US out of Venezuela!
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:48 am

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Annachie wrote:
TFLYTSNBN wrote:

If you think there were no elements of just pure chance and good luck in Bezos' accumulation of his massive fortune.... or for that matter are unable to grasp the concept of an analogy and the fact that they can be used to clarify concepts by comparing two different things which share SOME similar properties while not being at all the same in other respects... I invite you to spend time in reflection on the identity of the stupid party in this discussion.



Bezos certainly benefited from President Obama pressuring the US Post Office to provide delivery services to Amazon at a small fraction of fair market value.
You migt need to back that incorrect assertion up Fly.

But a hint. The rules that sets the prices for USPS, date back to 2006.

A second. The parcel service is the part of the US postsl service that makes the most proffit.



Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk[/quote]

Source?

My source says 2013.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -quicktake
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Re: US out of Venezuela!
Post by Imaginos1892   » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:09 am

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The E wrote:You are asking me for my opinion and then complain that my opinion isn't completely factual.

I require some rational basis for 'nobody deserves more than $150,000' beyond 'The E feels that way'. You have not provided any. You just want the government to chop down every tree that grows 'too tall' because they make you feel inadequate.

The E wrote:I am far more free than you will ever be. For example, I am free of any anxiety concerning my ability to pay for any sudden medical expenses. I am free of any worries concerning the cost of education for any children I might have. I am free of having to worry about making enough money to afford a place to live.

So, you agree — you are bragging that the government has 'freed' you from taking any responsibility for your own life. You are thrilled to be taken care of like a baby forever. It's exactly the same 'freedom' you'd have if you never moved out of Mommy's house.

The E wrote:Flipside of that coin is that I pay more taxes than you would, but my options are to pay those taxes, or putting the same money away as a reserve against future emergencies

I pay taxes and save money, because I don't want the government to 'take care' of me. I do not want to hand control of my life over to the government. I did move out of Mommy's house.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:This is partially the result of innovative people creating new technologies that generate wealth. However; it is also the result of free trade policies that export jobs and excessive immigration, particularly illegal immigrants, that depresses the fair market value of labor.

We need to encourage more of the former, and a lot less of the latter. Hammering down everybody who stands 'too tall' is not a way to do that.
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Re: US out of Venezuela!
Post by gcomeau   » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:40 am

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:
Annachie wrote:You migt need to back that incorrect assertion up Fly.

But a hint. The rules that sets the prices for USPS, date back to 2006.

A second. The parcel service is the part of the US postsl service that makes the most proffit.



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Source?

My source says 2013.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -quicktake


No, your "source" does not say that. It just says Amazon entered into a delivery contract with USPS in 2013.

It doesn't say one single damn word about "President Obama pressuring the US Post Office to provide delivery services to Amazon at a small fraction of fair market value."

Because that never happened. Trump says it happened, but Trump says about 150 untrue things an hour last I checked.

It also says USPS says they are making a profit on the deal.

If the seller is making a profit, and the buyer is getting what they want for their payments, that is pretty much the definition of "fair market value".
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Re: US out of Venezuela!
Post by Annachie   » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:35 pm

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Well, USPS is probably charging too little, but after the GOP screwed them over on the pensions they need Amazon far mor than Amazon need them.

And Fly, the rules that govern how the USPS negotisted thst 2013 deal date to 2006.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
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Re: US out of Venezuela!
Post by The E   » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:35 am

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Imaginos1892 wrote:
The E wrote:You are asking me for my opinion and then complain that my opinion isn't completely factual.

I require some rational basis for 'nobody deserves more than $150,000' beyond 'The E feels that way'. You have not provided any. You just want the government to chop down every tree that grows 'too tall' because they make you feel inadequate.


The rational basis is that 150k USD per year, or 12.5k USD per month, should be more than enough for a single person to afford a decent living, a decent home, and enough to afford whatever amenities such a person desires.

Again, if that isn't the case, why isn't it? And why are you so adamantly avoiding that question?

So, you agree — you are bragging that the government has 'freed' you from taking any responsibility for your own life. You are thrilled to be taken care of like a baby forever. It's exactly the same 'freedom' you'd have if you never moved out of Mommy's house.


Ha, no.

Please explain to me how having to put money away for health care costs means you're more free -- After all, statistically speaking, you have to pay more for it than I do (even taking into account the taxes I pay), and for worse service at that.
Explain how you are more free in considering how and where to get educated, when you have to pay as much as you have to for university education.
Explain how you are more free when you are under constant pressure to earn enough money to avoid losing your home.

You see, by agreeing to be part of the social security systems my country has chosen to institute, I am more free to make meaningful decisions in my life, whereas you are constrained by having to worry about eventualities.

You are, of course, free to ridicule me for being healthier, happier, and less anxious than you are. But I am not sure why you'd think that would make you look better than me.

I pay taxes and save money, because I don't want the government to 'take care' of me. I do not want to hand control of my life over to the government. I did move out of Mommy's house.


Feel free to point out how my government controls my life. I am sure, reasonable and facts-driven person that you are, you have a few well-researched examples that can show that what you are posting here is not random drivel written by someone with no understanding of life in my country, but rather objective fact.
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Re: US out of Venezuela!
Post by smr   » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:49 pm

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https://i.imgflip.com/2xci9y.jpg

Ostrich Fuhrer do you need some tissues or baby wipes to clean up after being taken to the wood shed by Imaginos1892?
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Re: US out of Venezuela!
Post by smr   » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:50 pm

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https://i.imgflip.com/2xci9y.jpg

Ostrich Fuhrer do you need some tissues or baby wipes to clean up after being taken to the wood shed by Imaginos1892?



Imaginos1892 wrote:He managed to win the lottery

Another idiot does not understand the difference between earning money and gambling.[/quote]

You had a choice: either you read the responses you get and respond in a thoughtful manner displaying insight and sophistication, or you cherry pick a single statement out of context to ridicule.

That you chose the latter reflects badly on your willingness to actually have a discussion. So, what do you want? Do you want to exchange ideas and viewpoints, or do you want to continue posturing?[/quote]
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