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CO2 sanity

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Re: CO2 sanity
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:42 pm

TFLYTSNBN
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Posts: 989
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:58 am

The E wrote:By the way, speaking of Happer:

https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview ... ojections/

https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview ... lant-life/

Hey, TFLY, how about you use your ~superior understanding~ of the science to show how those articles are wrong? Lesser minds want to know.


Just to be prompt I would point out that increased plankton growth in the oceans is far more effective as a Carbon sink than increased plant growth on land. Any sequestered Carbon in a forest or savana goes right back into yhe atmosphere when it burns.
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Re: CO2 sanity
Post by Daryl   » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:50 pm

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There really are two carbon cycles. The 50M year one where we burn petroleum (oil, gas, coal) that hasn't been part of the environment for a very long time, and the short cycle where trees and vegetation take in CO2 just to release it within a century from fire or decay.
The whole concept of planting trees to offset your air travel isn't valid.



TFLYTSNBN wrote:
The E wrote:By the way, speaking of Happer:

https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview ... ojections/

https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview ... lant-life/

Hey, TFLY, how about you use your ~superior understanding~ of the science to show how those articles are wrong? Lesser minds want to know.


Just to be prompt I would point out that increased plankton growth in the oceans is far more effective as a Carbon sink than increased plant growth on land. Any sequestered Carbon in a forest or savana goes right back into yhe atmosphere when it burns.
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Re: CO2 sanity
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:40 am

TFLYTSNBN
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Posts: 989
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:58 am

The E wrote:By the way, speaking of Happer:

https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview ... ojections/

https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview ... lant-life/

Hey, TFLY, how about you use your ~superior understanding~ of the science to show how those articles are wrong? Lesser minds want to know.



Yep,

It is global warming.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7229712/s ... -giraffes/
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Re: CO2 sanity
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:59 am

TFLYTSNBN
Commodore

Posts: 989
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:58 am

The E wrote:By the way, speaking of Happer:

https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview ... ojections/

https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview ... lant-life/

Hey, TFLY, how about you use your ~superior understanding~ of the science to show how those articles are wrong? Lesser minds want to know.



Oh Horror of Hoorors, we might return to the climate of the Minoan warm period.

http://www.greenworldtrust.org.uk/Scien ... eriods.jpg

We could grow grapes in Scottland again.

Greenland would become farmable.

We might even see the return of the women's fashions of the Minoan period!

https://www.google.com/search?q=minoan+ ... 24&bih=768


Time for me to read Paul Andersons THE DANCERS OF ATLANTIS again.
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Re: CO2 sanity
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:05 am

TFLYTSNBN
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https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/09/09/ ... l-records/

Need to understand the difference between cause and effect.
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Re: CO2 sanity
Post by The E   » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:28 am

The E
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TFLYTSNBN wrote:It is global warming.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7229712/s ... -giraffes/


Let's have a little game here. I call it:

How to spot someone willfully ignorant about climate change!

Step 1: Do they assume that abnormal cool weather is a counterindication to global warming?

Check.

Step 2: Do they cite sources of questionable provenance?

Well, you linked to the Sun, so yeah. Check.

Step 3: Do they not read the source they cite?

From the article:
Snowfall is not uncommon during winter in the region but this cold snap is particularly late in the season


So, another check there. We're 3 for 3!

Step 4: Do they cite sources with easily misunderstood graphs?

Okay, this is where things get tricky.

You cite this graph: http://www.greenworldtrust.org.uk/Scien ... eriods.jpg

You say it indicates that today's climate anomaly is nothing new, that humanity has lived through hotter periods in Earth's history. Now, a few issues here: One, that graph covers a period of 5000 years, when the period we're actually living in only accounts for about 50 years, taking up a little less than the last hundred-year span.
Two, that specific graph has a glaring flaw which is not apparent from the graph alone: It only describes a local temperature curve, not a global one. Globally speaking, that period in history was actually colder than today's climate.

Step 5: Do they misunderstand or misrepresent the results of climate change?

We could grow grapes in Scottland again.

Greenland would become farmable.


Both of those things might be true. But, what about the rest of the planet? If you can grow grapes in Scotland, what can you grow in Italy or Spain? Can you still live in areas like Pakistan, or Syria, or North Africa?

So, check. 5 for 5!

TFLY, small hint for you: Climate and Weather are not interchangeable.
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Re: CO2 sanity
Post by gcomeau   » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:27 pm

gcomeau
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Posts: 1995
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TFLYTSNBN wrote:
The E wrote:By the way, speaking of Happer:

https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview ... ojections/

https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview ... lant-life/

Hey, TFLY, how about you use your ~superior understanding~ of the science to show how those articles are wrong? Lesser minds want to know.



Oh Horror of Hoorors, we might return to the climate of the Minoan warm period.

http://www.greenworldtrust.org.uk/Scien ... eriods.jpg

We could grow grapes in Scottland again.

Greenland would become farmable.


Do you have even the faintest clue what kind of death toll what you just described entails?
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Re: CO2 sanity
Post by Daryl   » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:00 pm

Daryl
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Posts: 2727
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:57 am
Location: Queensland Australia

Previous dramatic changes in climate have led to mass extinctions. I doubt that mankind will become extinct, but massive death tolls in some areas are possible. Look at the famines in Africa for an initial heads up.
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Re: CO2 sanity
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:33 pm

TFLYTSNBN
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Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:58 am

Daryl wrote:Previous dramatic changes in climate have led to mass extinctions. I doubt that mankind will become extinct, but massive death tolls in some areas are possible. Look at the famines in Africa for an initial heads up.



The problem with Africa is toxic politics disrupting food production, not climate.
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Re: CO2 sanity
Post by Daryl   » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:33 pm

Daryl
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Posts: 2727
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:57 am
Location: Queensland Australia

I agree with part of your comment. The politics are disastrous, and between corruption and old tribal ties it is unlikely to improve for a very long time.
That doesn't mean that the increasingly harsh climate isn't a big factor as well.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:
Daryl wrote:Previous dramatic changes in climate have led to mass extinctions. I doubt that mankind will become extinct, but massive death tolls in some areas are possible. Look at the famines in Africa for an initial heads up.



The problem with Africa is toxic politics disrupting food production, not climate.
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