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CO2 sanity

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Re: CO2 sanity
Post by Annachie   » Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:45 am

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After all, a large part of the West Bank problems in the middle east is water.
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Re: CO2 sanity
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:38 am

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The E wrote:
TFLYTSNBN wrote:The link between drought and alleged nuclear reactor safety is gratuitously inane and insane.


That's a link YOU made, Fly. Don't blame me for your bullshit.

The link I was implying was between extended droughts, the resulting societal instability, and the increasing risk of war and that war going nuclear.



I was referencing this staement that YOU posted:

I'll let you work through the implications of a nuclear power running out of water (with all the political instability that implies) on your own, but it won't be pretty.

I misunderstood your statement to be referring to a nuclear power plant running out of water rather than a nuclear armed country.

I apologize for my mistake on this point. A lot of people in America as well as elsewhere are phobic of nuclear power.

Your point about the dangers of a nuclear armed nation experiencing a profound water shortage is very valid. It doesnt matter if that water shortage is the result of climate change or growing population and urbanization.

The fact remains that Pakistan is NOT experiencing a downward trend in precipitation. The most detailed historical record dating back to 1960 before CO2 concentrations began to increase significantly demonstrates this.

It is a problem if less precipitation is being stored as ice in glaciers so that water will be available in rivers during dry season. I am uncomvinced that this is a serious problem.

If receeding glaciers resulting from warmer weather are the problem, building dams to store more water is a far more cost effective solution than eliminating the use of fossil fuels.
Last edited by TFLYTSNBN on Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: CO2 sanity
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:50 am

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The key point.

During the last few decades, the Greater Himalayas have experienced increasing and decreasing precipitation trends (Shrestha et al. 2000; Z. Xu et al. 2007; Ma et al. 2009). Monsoon patterns have shifted, but the picture remains ambiguous (Shrestha et al. 2000). The IPCC predicts that average annual precipitation will increase by 10–30% on the Tibetan Plateau as a whole by 2080, although rising evapotranspiration rates may dampen this effect (IPCC 2007a).
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Re: CO2 sanity
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:55 am

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Annachie wrote:Actually Fly, monsoonal rain is hard to control or divert. Let alone trap in damns in useful locations.
Especially in a 3rd world country like Pakistan.

Hell, they've been talking about it here in Oz for decades with no progress.


But yeah, Pakistan is going to have to try.


You can not control the monsoon rains, but you can manage river flows.

Building dams is not that difficult. Finding the political will to build dams is difficult.

Perhaps America should send some engineers to Pakistan to teach them howbto locate dams and build them? The engineers could then stop at Austrailia to teach you Ozzies how to build dams.
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Re: CO2 sanity
Post by Annachie   » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:09 pm

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Really fly.

A damn, and collection atea, that can maintain 1inch a month but cope with 9 for the 2 month monsoon season? (Averages)

That can cope with 9 inches of rain a month when full, but given what and where we are talking about, 18 inches?

Basically, where you were getting a massive amount of water down the rivers, you now end up having to deal with a super mega fuckton of water down just one.


Which doesn't take into account the tribal nature of the mountain regions, or the whole India/Tamul's would no doubt happily blow the thing if it was built too close to the eastern side, or the Taliban on the western side.
Especially if you damned anything that would normally flow into those regeons.


Or at least, that's what I remember from a uni course decades ago.
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
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Re: CO2 sanity
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:03 am

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Annachie wrote:Really fly.

A damn, and collection atea, that can maintain 1inch a month but cope with 9 for the 2 month monsoon season? (Averages)

That can cope with 9 inches of rain a month when full, but given what and where we are talking about, 18 inches?

Basically, where you were getting a massive amount of water down the rivers, you now end up having to deal with a super mega fuckton of water down just one.


Which doesn't take into account the tribal nature of the mountain regions, or the whole India/Tamul's would no doubt happily blow the thing if it was built too close to the eastern side, or the Taliban on the western side.
Especially if you damned anything that would normally flow into those regeons.


Or at least, that's what I remember from a uni course decades ago.



This shows profound ignorance of how dams function and how they are managed. The goal is to store water for human use and regulate river flows. US has water storage for about 900 days. Pakistan should have the same level of water storage. Managing monsoons would require dam operators to draw down reservoir levels in anticipation of the monsoons so that storage capacity is available to absorb the increased river flow. This in turn requires an ACCURATE understanding of climate and weather.

California recently had a billion dollar FUBAR when AGW Theology climate forcasts of drought inspired mismanagement of dams. A refusal to draw down resevoirs in anticipation of winter precipitation resulted in the Oroville dam not having adequate capacity to absorb the increased stream flows.
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Re: CO2 sanity
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:19 am

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The problem is Carbon, not Carbon dioxide.


https://www.atmos-chem-phys.net/10/4559 ... ssion.html

The bottom line is that the Himalayan glaciers are not receeding due to lack of precipitation or melting resulting from CO2 as much as soot and black Carbon emitted from old technology coal fired power plants in India and China.


This is why I earlier posted the equation for black body radiation to inspire you children to actually do a little mathamatical consideration rather than merely pontificate propaganda.

Power = Stefan-Boltzman x (Temperature)^4

If you had possessed a willingness to learn, we could of progressed to this equation:

(Power / Stephan-Boltzman)^(1/4) = Temperature.

We then could have progressed to augmenting this equation to include variables for emissivity and albedo. This in turn could have evolved into a rational discussion on how land use affects climate. Unfortunately; googling and regurgitating has become a substitute for critical thinking and rational analysis.
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Re: CO2 sanity
Post by Annachie   » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:55 pm

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Here is why I have limited sympathy for the Pakistanis who were willing to "eat grass" to build nukes rather than reservoirs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Ba ... h_genocide


Thing is, India and Pakistan have been either at war, or close to it, since 1947.

The Indian nuclear program started in 1944.

Hell, they actually went to war in 1971 over Bangladesh.

The first test by India was 1974.

You can kind of understand Pakistan thinking nuclear weapons were damn important.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
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Re: CO2 sanity
Post by isaac_newton   » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:40 am

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Annachie wrote:SNIP...
Thing is, India and Pakistan have been either at war, or close to it, since 1947.

The Indian nuclear program started in 1944.

Hell, they actually went to war in 1971 over Bangladesh.

The first test by India was 1974.

You can kind of understand Pakistan thinking nuclear weapons were damn important.


1944 - are you sure about that date - seems a bit unlikely?
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Re: CO2 sanity
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:20 am

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Annachie wrote:
Here is why I have limited sympathy for the Pakistanis who were willing to "eat grass" to build nukes rather than reservoirs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Ba ... h_genocide


Thing is, India and Pakistan have been either at war, or close to it, since 1947.

The Indian nuclear program started in 1944.

Hell, they actually went to war in 1971 over Bangladesh.

The first test by India was 1974.

You can kind of understand Pakistan thinking nuclear weapons were damn important.


1967 was the start date for the actual weapons program.

Some of the people who actual developed India's nuclear weapons were eductated on the relevant physics and chemistry decades earlier and they had scientific establishments that preserved and expsnded that knowledge soon after independande.
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