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Bannon vs the Grand Jury

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Bannon vs the Grand Jury
Post by Annachie   » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:33 pm

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Serious question here.

Something I once saw in a TV show.

If Bannon is given blanket immunity for anything he says in the Grand Jury, can he still claim the 5th?

Can he refuse being given blanket immunity?

Can said blanket immunity be phrased in such a way as to exclude breaking the oath? (I'm betting yes on this one)

Finally, how would that play politically if it happened?
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Re: Bannon vs the Grand Jury
Post by Eyal   » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:49 am

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Annachie wrote:Serious question here.

Something I once saw in a TV show.

If Bannon is given blanket immunity for anything he says in the Grand Jury, can he still claim the 5th?

Can he refuse being given blanket immunity?


I doubt he can refuse because he isn't actually an active actor in immunity. Immunity is basically the prosecution declaring in a binding fashion that they're not going to press charges over a certain set of facts or acts. If immunity is being offered in exchange for testimony, the defendent can refuse it by refusing to give testimony - and he can void it by vilating any agreed upon terms after the deal is made. But if the prosecution grants immunity with no strings attached - that is, he doesn't have to give anything - he can't refuse it because he can't force them to prosecute him.

And once immunity is in force, AFAIK he can't invoke the 5th Amendment on anything covered by the immunity since he can't incriminate himself.
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Re: Bannon vs the Grand Jury
Post by pappilon   » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:38 am

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Eyal wrote:
Annachie wrote:Serious question here.

Something I once saw in a TV show.

If Bannon is given blanket immunity for anything he says in the Grand Jury, can he still claim the 5th?

Can he refuse being given blanket immunity?


I doubt he can refuse because he isn't actually an active actor in immunity. Immunity is basically the prosecution declaring in a binding fashion that they're not going to press charges over a certain set of facts or acts. If immunity is being offered in exchange for testimony, the defendent can refuse it by refusing to give testimony - and he can void it by vilating any agreed upon terms after the deal is made. But if the prosecution grants immunity with no strings attached - that is, he doesn't have to give anything - he can't refuse it because he can't force them to prosecute him.

And once immunity is in force, AFAIK he can't invoke the 5th Amendment on anything covered by the immunity since he can't incriminate himself.

Since he refused to testify before the senate comittee, I suppose this topic is relevant again.

No he cannot plead the 5th if he is given immunity, however his lawer must carefully delineate the specific subject matter with the prosecutor beforehand. His attorney cannot be present when he gives testimony before the grand jury. And certain questions can indeed open him up to charges not covered under the immunity agreement.

On the other hand, the President can sign a full pardon for any crimes committed during his tenure during the campaign or while a member of the administration. Which would defang any immunity deal by the prosecutor.
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Re: Bannon vs the Grand Jury
Post by Annachie   » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:36 am

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Problem is.

Accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt

Do you see the President doing that?
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
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Re: Bannon vs the Grand Jury
Post by pappilon   » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:49 am

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Annachie wrote:Problem is.

Accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt

Do you see the President doing that?


Did not stop him giving Joe Arpiao (some sheriff in Arizona)a pardon for civil rights violations of Mexicans of questionable citizenship. It can also be construed as further obstruction of justice, which is another tantamount admission of guilt.

Trump doesn't care about the appearance of impropriety.
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The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

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Re: Bannon vs the Grand Jury
Post by Annachie   » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:22 am

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Arpaio had already been found guilty, and a guilty verdict on Arpaio wasn't an automatic guilty on President Trump himself for conspiricy.
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
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Re: Bannon vs the Grand Jury
Post by pappilon   » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:21 am

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Annachie wrote:Arpaio had already been found guilty, and a guilty verdict on Arpaio wasn't an automatic guilty on President Trump himself for conspiricy.


No, it merely gives the appearance that Trump has no notion of constitutional rights and the fact that law enforcement officers should be honoring their oath to defend and protect the constitution, not violate it in the face of a court order. Which also strikes at the concept of no man being above the law.
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The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

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