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You've just coquered America.

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Re: You've just coquered America.
Post by munroburton   » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:30 am

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Daryl wrote:We've had compulsory voting for about a century. No need for a none of the above box. If you don't like any of the parties or candidates just go in mark your name off, get the ballot paper, and write "you can all get f***ed on it". Works apparently, as no one knows what you personally wrote.


That's an informal way of doing it and has no practical effect. If some electoral system did go to the trouble of adding in a formal 'Abstain' option - what would happen if it outpolled all the candidates?

Most existing systems give the contested seat to the candidate with the highest number of votes. It's irrelevant whether they came first or was trounced by "None" 43% to 35%.

Let's look at a recent, high-profile election: http://brilliantmaps.com/did-not-vote/

Hypothetically, compulsory voting has forced everyone who didn't vote to formally register in support of "none". Based on that, what should the outcome of that election be? Who is President?
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Re: You've just coquered America.
Post by Weird Harold   » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:51 am

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munroburton wrote:Hypothetically, compulsory voting has forced everyone who didn't vote to formally register in support of "none". Based on that, what should the outcome of that election be? Who is President?


The incumbent stays until a new election with new candidates can be held -- in say, 30 days or less -- with none of the current candidates permitted to run.

In the same vein, in order to win an election a majority of voters must should be gained. No elections by plurality; a runoff election NLT 30 days between just the top two until one gains a majority. Whether that would be workable with a "majority of registered voters" is an open question.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: You've just coquered America.
Post by Annachie   » Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:33 pm

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We're also legally allowed to draw a penis and balls on the ballot paper. Or anything else.

If it doesn't obscure the vote it's even counted. Assuming there's actually a legal vote on the paper.
Daryl wrote:We've had compulsory voting for about a century. No need for a none of the above box. If you don't like any of the parties or candidates just go in mark your name off, get the ballot paper, and write "you can all get f***ed on it". Works apparently, as no one knows what you personally wrote.


cthia wrote:Require everyone, that's physically able, to vote.

"None of the below" is better. Put the abstain option right at the top.

Although I do wonder what the best way of handling an electoral victory for "None of them" is. Empty chair for a term? Candidate in second place gets the job, but must wear a dunce cap?
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
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Re: You've just coquered America.
Post by Imaginos1892   » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:32 pm

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Nobody can straighten out the tax mess…nobody can restore faith in government…nobody can fix the economy…nobody can be trusted — vote for Nobody!
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Re: You've just coquered America.
Post by biochem   » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:12 pm

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The biggest problem is that you can force people to vote but you can't force them to make an informed vote. Think about who the non-voters will choose. They won't carefully think about the issues. They'll vote for whoever is the coolest or who they're told to vote for by a friend (or union or church etc etc). You can't make them think gor themselves.

It's pretty easy to vote in the USA. Registration is easy. Polls are open long hours and there is always absentee voting if you can't make it. People who don't vote don't want to vote.
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Re: You've just coquered America.
Post by Annachie   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:12 am

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Actually Biochem, you can make a fair prediction as to how they'll vote. Depending a little on the voting form layout.

First name always gets a higher percentage of the "Don't care" vote. In preferential it's top down.

Last name. To be peverse, some will vote the last name, or bottom to top in preferential systems.

The name they know. More typical of local elections of course, but the last US Federal election probably saw more of it than normal.
Not know personally, but know for some reason. Not sure how that would work out in a US local election as you guys see more advertising than other countries which tends to make people known more.

Blanks, or null votes. Though that might depend on the exact system. Down here you've given paper ballots, and some of them will be dropped straight in the ballot boxes with no markings on them.
Or dicks. Lots of dicks.*



*Legally you're not allowed to take photo's of the ballot papers, but there always seems to be pictures of the more creative efforts.
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
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Re: You've just coquered America.
Post by biochem   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:35 pm

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Annachie wrote:Actually Biochem, you can make a fair prediction as to how they'll vote. Depending a little on the voting form layout.

First name always gets a higher percentage of the "Don't care" vote. In preferential it's top down.

Last name. To be peverse, some will vote the last name, or bottom to top in preferential systems.

The name they know. More typical of local elections of course, but the last US Federal election probably saw more of it than normal.
Not know personally, but know for some reason. Not sure how that would work out in a US local election as you guys see more advertising than other countries which tends to make people known more.

Blanks, or null votes. Though that might depend on the exact system. Down here you've given paper ballots, and some of them will be dropped straight in the ballot boxes with no markings on them.
Or dicks. Lots of dicks.*



*Legally you're not allowed to take photo's of the ballot papers, but there always seems to be pictures of the more creative efforts.



And you still want to force these people to vote?? In a close election they could swing the election allowing Mr Aardvark to win while Ms Meerkat who would be the winner if only those who cared voted, winds up losing!
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Re: You've just coquered America.
Post by gcomeau   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:03 pm

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biochem wrote:
And you still want to force these people to vote?? In a close election they could swing the election allowing Mr Aardvark to win while Ms Meerkat who would be the winner if only those who cared voted, winds up losing!


I think anyone who supported voting to make a serial lying sexual predating zero relevant experience having stunningly ignorant reality television star who also happened to be rich the leader of the most powerful nation on earth has forfeited any and all standing to imply anyone else on the planet doesn't take their voting responsibilities seriously enough to be encouraged to have a say in their own government.
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Re: You've just coquered America.
Post by Annachie   » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:10 am

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Why yes I would.

The percentage of people who do it is low.

Much lower at state and federal level.

Add that names are randomly drawn on the ballot which minimises the affect.

But then all political parties in Australia ate about getting people to vote in elections.
Unlike the American GOP.
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
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still not dead. :)
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Re: You've just conquered America.
Post by Senior Chief   » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:10 pm

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Annachie wrote:Congratulations. You've just conquered the US of A.

What change would you make before handing the country back over to democracy?

Elections. I'd remove the electoral college system, and make all elections proportional representation.



Political donations can only be made by those people who are citizens; no corporate money donations since a corporation can not vote under the current law.

Also individual can only donate money to those individuals who are on their ballot... So no money gathered from a state, county, parish, or city and donated to another party in another state, county, parish, or city that you are not registered to vote in. ALL Donations must be tied to a SSN or some other ID so that if person A donates the IRS can check to see if they are donating more money than what they are reporting on their taxes at the end of the year.

NO PAC money allowed only individual donations that can be traced to valid registered voters.

"ALL" unspent or allocated campaign money at the end of each election "MUST" be returned to the donors on a prorated basis.

TERM LIMITS: Total years in office as a Senator or Congressman be a total 8 years. Then you go home and work for a living.

If an elected official wants to run for a higher office they MUST first resign from their current position so that their replacement can be voted in on the same ballot during election. We should NOT be paying for someone to run for office while neglecting their current elected position.

No Confidence or Vote the bums out of office

When ever you have an election whether it is local, statewide, or nationwide election; the electorate (the voter) get the choice of voting No Confidence against a single office holder or the whole group. If there over 50% of the voters vote No Confidence towards the city council or state legislature or the House or Senate those office holders are “required by law to resign” as well as those bureaucratic office holders that were appointed to their position by the government.

Ballots should have a No Confidence option. Also have a None option; meaning there is not one candidate on the ballot that the voter wants to vote for.


Pay Raises or other benefits... No elected official may vote themselves a pay raise, MUST be put to the vote of the people in their districts.

NO LIFE long benefits... why should a current elected federal official who only serves eight years get better benefits than a US Serviceman who has served their country for over 20?

NATIONAL ID Cards for all citizens!!! Show ID Card to register to vote.

No voting across party lines in the primary election; like in California where the top two could end up from the same party...

No more combined votes... meaning do not mix apples with oranges when voting... A bill to allocate funds for defense WILL NOT have riders allocating funds for pet projects like a library or a park in some senator/congressman district... Each bill MUST be a stand alone vote for one thing only... CUT OUT THE PORK why should tax payers money from one state pay for a PORK BARREL project in another state... ALL bills must be for one particular items... it will pass on it's own merit or fail.

Prohibit make it illegal to take funds ($) away from accounts that are allocated by law only for one use. Example: A Voter approved tax where the money goes into an account to be used for road repairs... Elected officials routinely take money away from those accounts to pay for other special projects that they could not get voter approval. Those officials who authorized the illegal transfer must go to jail for larceny and are booted out office...

LINE ITEM VETO and in addition to over-ride a veto it would take 2/3 of both the Senate and Congress to over-ride the President's line-item-veto.

Just a few random thoughts.
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