2017

I'll outrage you with this comment Peter, but really don't mean harm.
The US could do with a short term omnipotent benevolent dictator to come in, impose sensible gun laws (confiscating all assault rifles and concealable hand guns in private hands), and to construct a universal national government run health and welfare system.
As Mark Twain said "To create utopia, first shoot all the lawyers". Maybe not shoot them or the insurance execs, but certainly cut their power.
You do have the wrong end of the stick with "Negotiating with bureaucrats? That sort of small country thinking is why our sharks will get fat on socialized medicine at our citizen's expense. Most of our proglodytes follow that sort of logic."
I used to be a senior bureaucrat, who at times wrote laws that were passed and regulations pertaining to them. I didn't negotiate with my political masters (from left or right), just did what they wanted, occasionally pointing out legal or constitutional conflicts. The small country thinking bit is insulting, as we have our shit in one pile and the US certainly doesn't, and there are many large countries with the same systems.
I had to google "proglodytes", and find your usage amusing as we are much freer, as my personal example shows. No need to talk to any non medical person to get treatment, just flash the universal card.

PeterZ wrote:Negotiate with bureaucrats? Not likely.
Lobbyists will WRITE the law just like they wrote the law for Obummercare. Elected officials will vote on it without reading the law, just like San Fran Nan.

There will be all sorts of benefits for those in the industry. There will be all sorts of benefits and advantages for those in the old industry to run things in the new government run industry. The government can't absorb $3.0TR from the private sector without adding a lot of people. Who do you think those people will be?

Negotiating with bureaucrats? That sort of small country thinking is why our sharks will get fat on socialized medicine at our citizen's expense. Most of our proglodytes follow that sort of logic.

Just an observation, when someone has truly dug themselves into a deep hole all they can see is walls...

Yes, it is insulting. Just as insulting as being referred to as alt.Right. My point was the size of our government entices the most corruptible citizens into elected office. That does mean we don't have our shit in one pile. That means it is foolish to hand these crooks more shit to organize. Be glad your system doesn't corrupt your reps as ours does.

Daryl wrote:I'll outrage you with this comment Peter, but really don't mean harm.
The US could do with a short term omnipotent benevolent dictator to come in, impose sensible gun laws (confiscating all assault rifles and concealable hand guns in private hands), and to construct a universal national government run health and welfare system.
As Mark Twain said "To create utopia, first shoot all the lawyers". Maybe not shoot them or the insurance execs, but certainly cut their power.
You do have the wrong end of the stick with "Negotiating with bureaucrats? That sort of small country thinking is why our sharks will get fat on socialized medicine at our citizen's expense. Most of our proglodytes follow that sort of logic."
I used to be a senior bureaucrat, who at times wrote laws that were passed and regulations pertaining to them. I didn't negotiate with my political masters (from left or right), just did what they wanted, occasionally pointing out legal or constitutional conflicts. The small country thinking bit is insulting, as we have our shit in one pile and the US certainly doesn't, and there are many large countries with the same systems.
I had to google "proglodytes", and find your usage amusing as we are much freer, as my personal example shows. No need to talk to any non medical person to get treatment, just flash the universal card.

PeterZ wrote:Negotiate with bureaucrats? Not likely.
Lobbyists will WRITE the law just like they wrote the law for Obummercare. Elected officials will vote on it without reading the law, just like San Fran Nan.

There will be all sorts of benefits for those in the industry. There will be all sorts of benefits and advantages for those in the old industry to run things in the new government run industry. The government can't absorb $3.0TR from the private sector without adding a lot of people. Who do you think those people will be?

Negotiating with bureaucrats? That sort of small country thinking is why our sharks will get fat on socialized medicine at our citizen's expense. Most of our proglodytes follow that sort of logic.

PeterZ wrote:Yes, it is insulting. Just as insulting as being referred to as alt.Right. My point was the size of our government entices the most corruptible citizens into elected office. That does mean we don't have our shit in one pile. That means it is foolish to hand these crooks more shit to organize. Be glad your system doesn't corrupt your reps as ours does.

Do you have any evidence that size of government revenues correlates with corruption? Is service in the UK's government more corrupting than Canada's? Germany more corrupting that Greece?

noblehunter wrote:

PeterZ wrote:Yes, it is insulting. Just as insulting as being referred to as alt.Right. My point was the size of our government entices the most corruptible citizens into elected office. That does mean we don't have our shit in one pile. That means it is foolish to hand these crooks more shit to organize. Be glad your system doesn't corrupt your reps as ours does.

Do you have any evidence that size of government revenues correlates with corruption? Is service in the UK's government more corrupting than Canada's? Germany more corrupting that Greece?

I used the formation of Obamacare to support my limited assertion that the US is tempted into corruption more so than other smaller countries.

Lobbyists wrote the law.
Those they donated to voted for the law.
The law was passed that benefited the industry far more than the citizens it was supposed to serve.

I make no other broader assertion about the degree of temptation for countries smaller than the US. My posts have held that the tendency towards corruption is in the US. That's its nature or size of the government fosters corruption.

If you wish to draw deeper conclusions, be my guest.

PeterZ wrote:

noblehunter wrote:Do you have any evidence that size of government revenues correlates with corruption? Is service in the UK's government more corrupting than Canada's? Germany more corrupting that Greece?

I used the formation of Obamacare to support my limited assertion that the US is tempted into corruption more so than other smaller countries.

Lobbyists wrote the law.
Those they donated to voted for the law.
The law was passed that benefited the industry far more than the citizens it was supposed to serve.

I make no other broader assertion about the degree of temptation for countries smaller than the US. My posts have held that the tendency towards corruption is in the US. That's its nature or size of the government fosters corruption.

If you wish to draw deeper conclusions, be my guest.

But if the size or nature of the government tends towards corruption, shouldn't we see correlations in other countries? The US isn't completely unique and has many things in common with other countries.

noblehunter wrote:

PeterZ wrote:
I used the formation of Obamacare to support my limited assertion that the US is tempted into corruption more so than other smaller countries.

Lobbyists wrote the law.
Those they donated to voted for the law.
The law was passed that benefited the industry far more than the citizens it was supposed to serve.

I make no other broader assertion about the degree of temptation for countries smaller than the US. My posts have held that the tendency towards corruption is in the US. That's its nature or size of the government fosters corruption.

If you wish to draw deeper conclusions, be my guest.

But if the size or nature of the government tends towards corruption, shouldn't we see correlations in other countries? The US isn't completely unique and has many things in common with other countries.

Are other countries' governments similar enough to the US excluding size?

I am not sure the answer is yes.

So, solutions that work elsewhere are likely not to work here. Do we change to become like other nations or do we adopt solutions to address those differences? Most conservatives would argue for different solutions. Most liberal/progressives would argue for changing to become more like other nations. Hence our political divide.

PeterZ wrote:Not a republican vote for this POS.

To repeat.... *it worked as intended*.

It expanded insurance coverage and slowed cost growth.

That's not saying a lot, but it's probably the best that could have been hoped for in a system that was trying to retain private sector control over the health insurance system.

So you're basically saying "The Dems slightly improved the health insurance system! And The Republicans refused to vote to do it! And that's all I care about! Nothing else matters!"

Well.... ok?

If the Dems believed any lies the GOP said regarding the bill, tough shit.

I have absolutely no idea what the hell this is even talking about.

gcomeau wrote:
To repeat.... *it worked as intended*.

That's why the party that voted for it lost their majority and continued losing seats for six years afterwards and eventually the Presidency to a boorish, narcissitic neophyte.

The legislature was a POS.

PeterZ wrote:

gcomeau wrote:
To repeat.... *it worked as intended*.

That's why the party that voted for it lost their majority and continued losing seats for six years afterwards and eventually the Presidency to a boorish, narcissitic neophyte.

The legislature was a POS.

You can't just keep repeating it was a "POS" but have NO METRIC you are using to make that evaluation.

No, they lost their majority because there are vast swaths of people in the US like you. Who have NO IDEA what is going on in the health insurance system but just believe whatever ridiculous nonsense some Fox news segment host tells them. And that mob got whipped up into a frenzy over absurd fictional bullshit while the rest of the country got complacent with Obama elected and didn't turn out to vote.

Guess what's going to happen the next couple elections?