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Catalonia independence referendum

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Catalonia independence referendum
Post by munroburton   » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:08 am

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_i ... ndum,_2017

It appears that the Catalan regional government is planning to hold a binding referendum on 1st October, asking the question "Do you want Catalonia to be an independent state in the form of a republic?"

Such a vote is illegal under the Spanish constitution and the Constitutional Court stopped the referendum on 7 September. The regional government is planning to disregard this ruling and hold the referendum anyway, passing legislation it is not authorised to pass.

The Government of Spain maintains that secession votes cannot be held by regions and requires the consent of all of Spain. They are looking at bringing criminal charges against Catalan government officials.

The Catalan government had previously held a non-binding referendum in 2014 which was rebranded as a "non-referendum popular consultation", also held in defiance of the Spain Constutional Court. This was widely boycotted by opponents, generating a 80% yes vote. The party of the independence movement then won a clear plurality in 2015's elections and returned to government after an alliance with another pro-independence party.

The polling data for this one is non-definitive - yes has a clear plurality, but only when Nos and Abstains are separated. Abstains do make up a large chunk of the electorate - somewhere between 5 to 28%.

Some news links:
https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/09/06/in ... 19491.html

http://www.catalannews.com/politics/ite ... sition-law

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... referendum

It looks like a classic stand-off between self-determination and the good-of-the-whole-union. Neither side is willing to compromise or concede ground, although the Catalan government would be forced to if a No majority is returned. That does not look likely, though.
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Re: Catalonia independence referendum
Post by biochem   » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:08 pm

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Looks like that was the high point. Things seem to be going from bad to worse. They're going to be lucky there's no fighting in the streets by the end of this.
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Re: Catalonia independence referendum
Post by munroburton   » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:13 am

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The fighting has started, although at present it seems to be mainly Spanish police attacking peaceful voters/protestors.

https://www.facebook.com/euforindyscot/ ... 160942496/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41457238
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Re: Catalonia independence referendum
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:03 am

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It seems to be a pretty common cause nowadays, to have "good democracy" and "bad democracy". "This referendum achieved what we like, so this is a good, true democracy". "This referendum we didn't like, so this is a bad democracy. It shouldn't be allowed. And, probably, therussiansdidit!"
------------------------
If power's on your shopping list
Then use the elbow and the fist,
Pummel 'em until they get the gist
Just make an example of
Representative sample of
And most of them will not be missed! (c)
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Re: Catalonia independence referendum
Post by Bruno Behrends   » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:44 am

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Dilandu wrote:It seems to be a pretty common cause nowadays, to have "good democracy" and "bad democracy". "This referendum achieved what we like, so this is a good, true democracy". "This referendum we didn't like, so this is a bad democracy. It shouldn't be allowed. And, probably, therussiansdidit!"


There is a pretty important difference between Ukraine and Spain:

1) A neighbour (let's use France as an example) did NOT invade Spain first to then setup a referendum (under France's 'impartial' supervision) there.

2) The regional government of Catalania actually did ask the EU to intercede (I am drawing a parallel between the Russian faction in Ukraine and the Catalan government here) but the EU refused. The EU refused to get involved even politically. Not to mention arming and militarily aiding the Catatalans like Russia does with the Russian faction in Ukraine!
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Re: Catalonia independence referendum
Post by pappilon   » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:16 am

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So there's blood in the streets, confiscated ballots and ballot boxes, forcibly closed polling stations. And the Separatists have declared an overwhelming vote for succession. Where does Catalonia go from here?
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Re: Catalonia independence referendum
Post by Cardenas   » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:10 am

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pappilon wrote:So there's blood in the streets, confiscated ballots and ballot boxes, forcibly closed polling stations. And the Separatists have declared an overwhelming vote for succession. Where does Catalonia go from here?


That's a tough one, might as well just start all over.
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